Phil,
I make somewhat similar distinctions, though I tend to do it in
relation to clauses before I do it with punctuation. (How do decisions
about what comes in the main clause influence emphasis and so on.)
I think one of your forms would be a run-on sentence.
(B...,however,B...) Maybe I'm misreading it.
"We wanted to go, however, we couldn't get permission." However much we
might want to find it acceptable, traditional grammar doesn't accept
"however" as subordinating. It would be a "run-on sentence" in
traditional grammar.
I like to teach the standard conjunctions thought of as coordinate, but
I'm not sure I understand the logic of the classifications. Certainly
"and" "but" and "Or/nor" leave both sides equal, but I'm not so sure
about "so", "for", and "yet." Don't "for" and "because" seem awful
similar at times? For convention sake, though, it helps to know a
clause can stand alone with these at its head.
"He felt he must go, for he had promised his dying father." "He wanted
to go. For he had promised his dying father." "He wanted to go. Because
he had promised his dying father." This last would be a sentence
fragment.
Does it help that some of our rules seem arbitrary? My experience has
been that students are grateful when we point this out. If they are
going to jump through arbitrary hoops, they like to have it
acknowledged.
Craig
I like to tell students that the secret to English punctuation lies in
> looking at the three types of joining words all at once (in a 3 column
> slide), then taking note each has it's own punctuation. I further point
> out that it is relatively easy to keep the three sets apart. I point out
> the FANBOYS acronym for coordinate conjunctions and then note that the
> ideas of subordinate and conjunctive adverb already exists in their head
> it is just a matter of getting comfortable with it. To prove it I give
> them a few examples and they try to place them in the correct category
> with the others on the slide.
>
> And then I give these basic rules which are quite elucidating and
> elmininate a lot of problems:
>
> 1. Coordinate Conjunctions.
>
> A comma always precedes the coordinate conjunction
>
> A, and B.
>
> 2. Subordinate conjunctions.
>
> If the conjuntion precedes the conjunction clause use a comma.
>
> Because A, B.
>
> B because A.
>
> 3. Conjunctive Adverbs
>
> There are four ways to do this.
>
> A. However, B.
>
> B; however, B.
>
> A. B..., however, B... .
>
> A. B... , however.
>
> They find this approach clears their mind. I teach post-secondary and
> there are frequently confusions that need to be cleared up rather than
> ideas that need to be introduced.
>
> Phil Bralich
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Sep 11, 2006 8:37 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Conjunctive Adverbs
>>
>>Phil,
>> I agree, but I think we need to make it clear that our agreement is
>>essentially that we will use these terms to mean these things, and that
>>the distinctions are important.
>> I think the semi-colon is a natural tool to show a simultaneous
>>connection and independence between clauses, like those in your
>>"however" example. (I'm just as glad you didn't use the semi-colon;
>>some grammar books talk as though it is the right way to do it.) And I
>>have no problem with starting with the role of the semi-colon and then
>>coming up with examples that seem effective.
>> In an effective text, no sentences function independently of each
>> other.
>>From there, we can see lots of ways in which the connections are built
>>and made manifest.
>> These are important problems precisely because they are at the
>>conjunction of syntax and discourse. If sentences are to do the work of
>>discourse, then we need to look at how.
>> Following most handbooks won't get us very far.
>>
>>Craig
>>
>>
>> Their independence is what determines that they are adverbs and not
>>> conjunctions. A conjunction requires two clauses an adverb can sit
>>> with john. John dates Mary although she is leaving town.
>>> Subordinate conjunction John likes Mary but she is leaving town.
>>> Coordinate conjunction John likes Mary. However,
>>> she is leaving town. Conjunctive adverb This is not just a
>>> punctuation convention but a recognition of the fundamental difference
>>> between an adverb that carries this sort of meaning (consequence,
>>> negative consequenec, conjunction, etc) and the conjunctions that do.
>>> Phil Bralich
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Peter Adams
>>> Sent: Sep 10, 2006 2:08 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Conjunctive Adverbs
>>>
>>> Everyone seems to agree, even Martha Kolln and the Cambridge Grammar,
>>> that
>>> conjunctive adverbs are, indeed, conjunctions. I still don't see why
>>> they
>>> are not just considered adverbs. Does anyone see it my way?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Adams
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>>
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