The difficulty I am talking about is that those who take those classes often have trouble recognizing and communicating the parts of speech, parts of sentence, and sentence types as well as relations between sentences and clauses.  They may have some interesting views but they lack this basic knowledege.  It is missing because it was ignored in elementary school, ignored in secondary school and presupposed in post secondary and graduate school.  The certificate, takes the problem of remediation out of the formal programs and leaves it to a separte certificate program.  This would be good for community colleges to offer and useful for all professionals to demonstrate they had the basic skills rather.  And don't forget most leaving those programs you refer to simply do not have the skills we are talking about.  

Phil Bralich

-----Original Message-----
>From: dabro <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Aug 30, 2006 12:39 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Grammar Certification
>
> Phil:For TESL certification, or an MA TESL, prospective teachers often study syntax, semantics, pragmatics, sociolinguistics, and discourse analysis. Is this not grammar in use? I believe it is. Peace,David BrownEFL/ESL teacherLong Beach, CA--- On Wed 08/30, Phil Bralich < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>From: Phil Bralich [mailto: [log in to unmask]]To: [log in to unmask]: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:46:49 -0700Subject: Re: Grammar CertificationThat's nice, but it still leaves room for someone not to know that participial phrase and a reduced adejective clause are the same thing. A certification test for grammar alone independent of getting a Master's would be a real service for those who want and can teach grammar and for those who want to hire qualified grammar teachers. It is also one more line, one more certification on a C.V. so it cannot be a bad thing. This would have been the best response to reports that grammar study was somehow unimportant or ineffective. I have always been convinced that most of the anti-grammar movement got its support primarily from those afraid of being called to account for an insufficient background in grammar. To this day whenever I hear someone extolling anti-grammar attitudes I immediately know they will be EXTREMELY defensive abo!
 u!
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