To chime in on this point -- even if the teacher is talking about conventional standards, there's a big difference between knowing that a sentence needs to be changed at some point and knowing *why*. I came to English-teaching with a fairly good intuitive grasp of standard written English (it's the nerd effect -- substitute books for social interaction and voila!), but the first time a non-native English speaker asked me why I wanted to add the word "the" to a line, I realized that all I could say was, "Because it, er, sounds right that way." Knowing how to do something yourself doesn't automatically allow you to explain it well, and it certainly doesn't automatically allow you to put it into relation with *other* ways of doing the same thing.
Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 3:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Hancock & the NCTE
> Brad,
The problem, I think, is that they expect "good grammar" to be
something that teachers acquire rather than know about. Correcting
errors is not the same thing as teaching about grammar. There's a lot
more involved in language than "conventional standards." A typical
English teacher is trained in literature, but not in language.
Craig
>
>
>
> Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Grammar is not highly valued by progressive educators, which is why NCTE
> is in opposition to the direct teaching of grammar in the schools. The
> opposition comes in part because grammar is very narrowly defined. The
> conversation rarely happens because the two worlds are so far apart.
>
> ~~~~~~~
>
> Is it not true that while the NCTE opposes the direct teaching of grammar
> in the schools, they expect that teachers of the various English
> disciplines will be more than conversant with the good grammar of Standard
> English, so that teachers who grade student essays, for example, can
> constantly nudge student writing in the direction of conventional
> standards?
>
> So-called "creative" writing, which often ignores good grammar, comes
> later and violations are, or should be, done with intent and not through
> ignorance. Contemporary authors almost always claim intent but often there
> is evidence to the contrary.
>
>
>
>
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