On 2010-01-31, at 11:06 AM, Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar wrote:
> A recent book review on Linguist List gave examples of idioms from the British corpus:
>
> 'take the plunge', 'see a point' and 'write a letter'.
>
> I gave no problems with the 1st and 3rd in my American English; however, I do not recall ever
>
> encountering the 2nd idiom: “see my/your/his/her/their point.” I see no point; I do not see any point;
>
> I don’t see the point. Is there a point to this …? The idiom “see a point” is not in my American
>
> English corpus of usage—nor do I recall reading it.
Perhaps I'm not understanding Scott, but it seems to me he's doubting that 'see DETERMINER point' is an idiom in American English. This seems a startling claim since it happens on average about once per million words, which is lots frequent enough for the average native speaker to be very familiar with it. Here are a random 100 hits from the Corpus of Current American English. Not all of them are relevant, but many are (and I'm too lazy to edit out the irrelevant ones.)
1 2009 SPOK CBS_48Hours of course. I think, yeah. Oh yeah. RICHARD-SCHLESINGE: Can you see a point where your life is back to normal? CYNTHIA-SOMMER: I do
2 2009 FIC Analog Bell's claims of a suit-shredding security system were at all accurate, but I saw no point in testing them. I turned when he told me and stepped where
3 2009 ACAD MusicEduc they had not always been honest in reporting his practice time. He didn't see the point of having to practice or turn in practice charts if he could already
4 2008 FIC Bk:LoveOneYoureWith from turquoise water, it was the most breathtaking piece of earth I had ever seen. At one point, as I was admiring the view, Andy rested his
5 2007 FIC SouthernRev on their breakfast cereal. " You're a businessman, Don. You can see the point of smaller-scale clients, of letting the buzz build. " " If
6 2007 NEWS WashingtonPost Taylor, who has been active for only 40 of 74 games, will also see action at point guard. # " It's going to be a totally different
7 2006 SPOK NPR_ATC turning point in terms of public opinion. And I'm not even sure I see a turning point in my own organization. For people who do believe that
8 2006 SPOK MSNBC_Matt in fact shows -- # from a slightly different angle and slightly closer -- you see at one point # this is the same video here, Chris. But you
9 2006 NEWS Atlanta illegally entered the country are becoming engineers and scientists. # I hope Congress will see Tucker's point of view soon; otherwise, we are going to have some
10 2006 NEWS Denver # based Pediatrix/Obstetrix. # A 1997 article in the medical journal Pediatrics is widely seen as a turning point. The paper documented breast milk's ability to decrease the
11 2006 ACAD ForeignAffairs . # These facts are stark, and those who buy into the comprehensive vision see no point in quarreling with them. Rather than seeking to repeal the laws of
12 2005 SPOK ABC_GMA Well, and, and the thing that you pointed out earlier, that I saw you point out to one of our staff, is that in water parks you
13 2005 SPOK NPR_Daybreak , but Julian Fellowes says they don't dislike her; they just don't see the point of knowing her. It's very hard for them to believe
14 2005 FIC Bk:TheseHighGreen . " " It's been four months since the brunch, so I can see Flora Lou's point that Marge should have picked it up and carted it home
15 2005 FIC Bk:AcrossBridgeSighs happy in each other's company that it wasn't long before Sofi and Vittorio saw no point in trying to hide the fact that they were madly in love,
16 2005 FIC Mov:Island sack of flesh with a heartbeat. Life, death, I just couldn't see the point anymore. # Merrick allows a respectful pause, then- # # MERRICK
17 2005 MAG HarpersMag the gorgeous way the rhythms and the meanings converge. They nod, they do see the point, they make notes. Most are already teaching writing themselves, to
18 2005 ACAD LawPublicPol the present value of all expected net benefits from anticipated policy changes. # To see this point, reconsider the amount of money a project manager would be willing to
19 2004 SPOK CNN_Politics a closed hearing. There will also be public hearings for all the nation to see at some point either later this week or next week in the Senate Armed Services
20 2004 MAG SportingNews Cliff Hawkins watches other college games, he does not wonder why he so often sees point guards relentlessly pounding the ball into the floor-killing ants, as one coach used
21 2004 ACAD WorldAffairs . There also is little doubt that the support of dictators in the CIS is seen from the point of view of strengthening Russia's great power aspirations there and thus
22 2004 ACAD MusicEduc early! " I now realize that some of the best responses are " I see your point " or " I will look into it. " I believe that
23 2003 SPOK NPR_Daybreak entertainment world, publishing, the campuses and all levels of schooling. Now I see his point with regard to schools and the arts. It does seem to me
24 2003 FIC Analog about human medicine. " Bry's fur twisted synchronously. " Yes, I see your implied point, my friend. No doubt we could bring some small degree
25 2003 MAG SouthernLiv as the Spirit of Old Beaufort ($12.50 adults; 843 525-0459). To see The Point as well as other historic landmarks by carriage, choose from Carolina Buggy
26 2003 MAG SportingNews who has watched North Carolina or Kansas play has, perhaps a million times, seen the point guard carry the ball to one wing, a big man stop at
27 2002 SPOK CNN_King I am ashamed of you both. Stealing is wrong. I guess I see your point, Winona. But what the frick, let's steal this stuff
28 2002 FIC LiteraryRev , but the pain of his patients was of a dimension he could not, saw no point in, imagining. # He carefully removed the bandage from her hand
29 2002 FIC Bk:RiseRebellion coming closer to the Custom House. Now the voices were clear, and he saw one man point at him, felt his heart jump in his chest. They
30 2002 FIC Bk:CityDreams " Although Hetje was strong, Lucas could easily have overpowered her. But he saw no point. Not until Sally's attitude softened. After she was rid of
31 2002 MAG PsychToday transparent plastic panel with six groups of letters set into it, which I can see through as I point to the letters. Much more efficient, don't you
32 2002 ACAD ChurchHistory by the mass. (n85) # Once again then in these final images we see the point I have been making throughout this essay. Blood -- spilled and sacrificial
33 2001 SPOK Fox_Cavuto think that will have too much impact, honestly. Do you want to see a half point? It's -- from a company standpoint, it really
34 2001 SPOK CBS_Sixty somebody. " I -- I -- well, the only thing that I saw at that point was I assumed that there was some kind of struggle between Mr.
35 2001 SPOK NPR_FreshAir of her own, she said that's what we call oversharing. I could see her point, but the entry had a certain Pooterist fascination, too. There
36 2001 SPOK CNN_LiveToday to ensure -- to fix the ship's position by radar. As you can see, Point Loma and the coast of San Diego painting real nice there. And
37 2001 FIC FantasySciFi , six months. And we've reached that point where I'm having trouble seeing the point to things. Where I can pretty well imagine us parting ways.
38 2001 MAG TownCountry tosses off whenever he has an idea for a new design. He does not see much point in producing his shoes in black, although black is popular with his
39 2001 MAG Backpacker in the toebox, while the narrow-footed felt their heels swimming. We didn't see the point of the S-shaped tongue, which repeatedly slid to the side for John
40 2000 SPOK CBS_Morning but " Gladiator " wants to be " High Noon. " Nor do I see the point of a swords-and-sandals movie without a Roman orgy. Nevertheless, compared to
41 2000 SPOK PBS_Newshour that's going to prejudice Florida's certification to the electoral college, wait and see to a point in time when the manual recounts are completed, allow those amended
42 2000 FIC FantasySciFi hours grow tedious. You were fond of chess, I believe? " I saw no point in affirming something she knew and bent over the controls, invoking the
43 2000 FIC FantasySciFi . This realization effectively prevented him from inquiring further about the mysterious Mulhooley. He saw no point in giving Conhoon the pleasure of refusing him an answer. # Everything
44 2000 ACAD ReVision so confusing or hard to get? " or " Why can't this person see that theorist's point? " # Sometimes students' patterns match up with past
45 1999 SPOK NBC_Dateline room. (Hotline worker; car on road; Kelly Mahoney drivin She probably looked the worst of any child that I had seen up to that point. (voice-over) So Mahoney also took Kayla aside and asked
46 1999 SPOK NBC_Today . He's someone who, throughout his life and -- can look back and see the point at which something was done to him and for which later he would
47 1999 FIC Analog to this Inquiry to throw insults, " Jax said, " I don't see much point in continuing. " Dazza spoke quietly. Vyrl, perhaps we should
48 1999 FIC BilingualRev color. The next time Meryl saw one of Mambrusio's paintings, she suddenly saw Bonnie's point of view. His lines seemed haphazard, as if he had
49 1999 FIC SouthernRev a tattoo and are disappointed when I don't. Also, I don't see the point of having my ear pierced when I don't even wear a watch
50 1999 FIC Mov:RemakingHistory loves me and I intend to keep it that way. # SEBASTIAN # I see your point... though why should I care? # KATHRYN # I need you
51 1998 SPOK CBS_Sixty always been able to provide for my children. (Footage of Hawkins and her attorney) Now I -- I see your point, but it's just the... (voice-over) Hawkins' lawyer,
52 1998 SPOK CNN_Politics , I think that while certainly a subpoena is legally different than what we've seen up to this point, I don't know that it's materially different in
53 1998 FIC SouthernRev just think maybe this isn't the night for me to be doing this. See my point? " he pleaded. " If I'd known it was this
54 1997 SPOK CNN_KingWknd . Had I been acting it on camera I would have, you would have seen a point of view. As it was, I was just a generic little
55 1997 FIC Ploughshares many Strouds? " # It was Jonathan who finally said, " Now i see the point of cemeteries. Future entertainment. " # They all laughed. It
56 1997 FIC Esquire for additional pages from his novel in progress. About to give up, I saw Mrs. Ellison point in the direction of a battered cardboard box under the dining-room table
57 1997 MAG FieldStream on the trail and headed up to Sandy. He raised his head once and saw Sandy on the point and stood him stiff and pretty. Maybe you've seen
58 1997 MAG TodaysParent discuss the ethical issues, suggest the authors of Bringing Up a Moral Child (see Resources). Point out how the store owners end up paying for every item
59 1997 NEWS Atlanta Be strong -- stay sober APRIL JACKSON, 16, Conyers # I don't see any point in drinking, and I don't understand why people would want to
60 1997 ACAD Raritan # But for children with Asperger Syndrome, acculturation goes against the grain; they see no point in manners; they dislike interruption; interactions are not of their choosing
61 1996 SPOK CNN_Talkback to wait, Sonya. Wait till I finish. Wait till I finish. See the point is this. Before, it was lots of people talking about what
62 1996 SPOK PBS_Newshour and this is going to go away? What do you -- what do you see at this point? Well, we would not want to have an escalation
63 1996 FIC Mov:BringMeHead and ETHAN and SARAH waiting down below! INT. SAFE HOUSE - NIGHT PHELPS sees JACK's point of view of the elevator, with GOLITSYN inside. # PHELPS
64 1996 MAG Esquire " Someone asks me a question and I just answer it. I don't see any point in not being honest. " At which point, he turned to
65 1996 NEWS SanFrancisco the house, and all 14 carry an image of the conductor that can be seen from any point on the stage. # But this solution is trickier than it
66 1996 NEWS Houston Brinkley had no part in putting that show together. He didn't " " see much point " in having a 15-year anniversary, and he won't even be
67 1995 SPOK Ind_Limbaugh nor ABC News was there to help her write the answers. And you will see -- and the point of this is, when she's on her on,
68 1995 SPOK CNN_TalkBack the really gut wrenching pictures inside, a lot of photographs people really haven't seen at this point. Like young Michael and Alex at bathtime and playing with toys
69 1995 FIC Bk:LadderYears Yes, she did. She had barely passed the halfway mark. But she saw his point. The longer they hung around, the greater his chances of another
70 1995 NEWS NewYorkTimes a mixed review but had praised Ms. Lange's performance. In what is widely seen as a turning point for the film, a week later, Peter Rainer,
71 1995 NEWS Houston Nov. 30 column, " " Environment's science clouded ": She doesn't see Barlow's point. # He is calling for balance in the way education about
72 1995 ACAD Raritan , a crisis so vast, so close to a full ending, that he saw no point in continuing his narrative after it. But most autobiographies have mimic endings
73 1994 FIC FantasySciFi story. " # " Anyway... " I said. " You see my point? Where do I go from here? " # " You want
74 1994 FIC SatEvenPost experts recommend hemoperfusion when the level exceeds 80. The highest level I have personally seen to this point is 84, and that patient had seizures. " Oh,
75 1994 FIC ArkansasRev apartment a few hours later to ask her why. # " I don't see much point in either one of us enabling the man or taking his abuse,
76 1994 FIC BkJuv:WolfSpeaker , the gelding said nervously. It's really very upsetting.) aine could see his point, but told him, If you're a wizard's horse,
77 1994 FIC Bk:Heat up. " I only wanted to be sure he delivered the case; I saw no point in any further surveillance. If he'd done something untoward, we
78 1994 FIC Mov:ShallowGrave want to bury it? Is that it? # JULIET # I don't see the point in that. # ALEX # Because that's no good. Remember
79 1994 FIC Bk:NightPrey He'd taken his necktie off and thrust it in his pocket. Sara could see just the point of it sticking out from under the flap of his coat pocket
80 1994 MAG HarpersMag guards to protect themselves against the mounting violence. It is not just that they see no point in paying for public services they no longer use; many of them
81 1994 MAG Astronomy . Viewers should also note the planet's rings, which appear increasingly edge-on as seen from our vantage point. Earth will pass through the ring-plane in May, when
82 1994 NEWS Chicago giant leap 75 years from now, only time will tell. Will it be seen as a turning point in civilization or just an icon of humanity's restlessness to
83 1993 MAG HarpersMag but nodded politely, thinking him an amiable madman who required humoring. Now I saw his point. Each wet-suited windsurfer had the rigid crouch of a toy gladiator as
84 1993 ACAD ForeignAffairs the Bolshevik Revolution. # In retrospect, the shocks of the 1970s can be seen as the high point of oil nationalism. It was the era when the world
85 1993 ACAD HospitalTopic continuing education, which helps maintain a pattern of continual training necessary to CQI (see point 6). Thus, in the majority of cases, the providers of
86 1992 FIC Mov:CryingGame , slowly turns. # DIL # What are you doing, honey... We see Fergus from her point of view, coming toward her with Jody's white cricket
87 1992 FIC Mov:Newsies need the city on our side... the people... the papers. (Jack sees his point) Tell' em, Jack. They'll listen to you.
88 1992 MAG HarpersMag treatment immediately. There was much organizing and packing she had to do. She saw no point in telling her husband or her lover that she had stopped seeing her
89 1992 NEWS Houston answer was no # Frazier plainly disagrees with their response, but he tries to see their point of view. # " " It's a difficult position they're
90 1991 SPOK PBS_Newshour some idea, and I can, I can see their point. I can see their point. When you were growing up as a child in Russia,
91 1991 FIC Mov:JFK , Arnold Rowland and his wife look up at the sixth floor windows and we see, from their point of view, two shadowy figures... # JIM (V.O.
92 1991 MAG USNWR riots, Rice says, he'd never really known a Jew -- and never saw the point of knowing one. They were the ones who walked down the streets
93 1990 SPOK ABC_Primetime agree with it at all. She thinks it's wrong, and I can see her point. (voice-over) So last Monday night, the coach of the Cincinnati
94 1990 SPOK ABC_Nightline Please. r. STURUA: You are trading now insults, I see, but the point is that my country is now in the midst of new
95 1990 SPOK ABC_Nightline on Sunday, and during that same period of time Arizona-1:205 Yeah, but you see the point, you see the point, Mr. Rose. That's not good
96 1990 FIC Bk:Postmortem his wineglass again. After a pause, he replied, " I didn't see any point in telling you. All it would have done was worry you,
97 1990 FIC BkSF:DetroitRock " If you feel it will be necessary, " Mikelis said, " I see your point. " " Then you have our bid, " Heikki said,
98 1990 MAG AmerArtist n't like my interpretation of him, and he made some recommendations. I could see his point of view, but I could not, in my artistic sensibility,
99 1990 MAG NewRepublic smiling broadly. # Even if the scholarship were true, it's difficult to see the point of it all. The spirit is so ugly that even if it
100 1990 NEWS WashingtonPost (D-La.), a longtime critic of early deployment schemes, said he too sees a likely turning point in the Senate debate this year due to improved U.S.-
Best,
Brett
-----------------------
Brett Reynolds
English Language Centre
Humber College Institute of Technology and Advanced Learning
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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