Craig,
Craig,
I am interested in working with the scope and sequence group. If you can
use another believer in the cause to help with the project, let me know
what I can do.
Carolyn
Carolyn Kinslow
Director, Center for Writers
Director of Composition
Cameron University
2800 West Gore
Lawton, OK 73505
(580) 581-5524
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: That Reprehensible NCTE Position Statement
Phil,
I want to echo Paul's points and give more info on Scope and
Sequence.>The project is an attempt to give thoughtful, professional
advice about the teaching of grammar for anyone looking for an
alternative to minimalist approaches. We were given a large part of
the ATEG conference last summer and at that point approached the task
on a more general level, coming to a consensus of what the advice
should entail. Tim Hadley, whose dissertation has focused on the NCTE
position, gave us a fine talk on its shortcomings, and he has agreed
to be the point person for our own official response. I suspect he
would be very happy to have you involved. My own sense is that we
should put most of our energy on our own recommendations, that we
should stop arguing for the need for a grammar and simply advocate a
sensible one. But it's clear that people will bring up the supposedly
conclusive NCTE position, and we should have a direct response to it.
Once again, we have been given substantial time at the ATEG
conference
for this project. My hope is that we can roll up our sleeves and fill
in the details, not just take positions on the kind of grammar that
should be taught, but make recommendations about the SCOPE (what
should be covered) and SEQUENCE (when), teacher training, more
reasonable assessment practices, and so on. We have proposed a panel
for next year's NCTE (without using grammar in the title, but focused
on these issues from the perspective of state standards, assessments,
teacher training, and the disjunction among them. Martha Kolln and I
are listed as presenters of the Scope and Sequence report, and it
would be nice to have a fait accompli to present. If not, we can talk
about current state of the project.)
Paul is more optimistic than I am about progress through NCTE. I
think they deeply believe that direct instruction in grammar is
harmful, and anyone who advocates otherwise is a threat to progressive
education. Most English teachers are trained to teach literature.
It's hard to talk about grammar with people who have very little
background in it. But I agree very much with what i take to be your
position, that we should present a clear and thoughtful alternative.
If a school system in Ohio wants to change, they will have a
professional position statement to help them out and a recommended
program. If we wait for the blessing of NCTE, it will probably never
happen. But the time is right. There's a grassroots interest in this,
in part because NCTE hasn't adequately responded to the challenge of
No child Left Behind.
The big plan is to get lots of people involved and to delegate
drafting of the big parts of it. You are most welcome.
Craig
Phil,
>
> We've been working on this issue for some time and have made a good
deal
> of progress. There is still a long way to go, and that's part of what
> ATEG is all about. We did get NCTE to publish our book, Grammar Alive:
A
> Guide for Teachers, a couple of years ago. We've been gradually
> improving our posture at the NCTE Conventions, too.
>
> A few years back, NCTE began to backpeddle a bit on their 1985
position
> by including our "Questions and Answers" page on it's website; you
might
> want ot check it out:
> http://www.ncte.org/about/over/positions/category/gram/107646.htm.
>
> Perhaps you'd like to participate in the Scope and Sequence group
that
> Craig Hancock started; we could definitely use more assistance.
>
> Welcome into the fray,
>
> Paul D.
>
> Phil Bralich <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> As everyone here is aware, the NCTE 1985 Position Statement about
> teaching
> grammar advocates against it to the detrimant of all language training
> native or foreign. While it seems to couch its criticism in the form
of
> the supposed lack of benefit that grammar study has on writing alone,
it
> seems to presuppose that there would be no other sufficiently useful
> reason for teaching grammar. The position thereby has the effect of
> shutting down all grammar teaching.
>
> It strikes me that of all the groups that exist in academe today, the
one
> most appropriate to address this embarassment to American education is
> ATEG. Is there currently a working group within ATEG which
specifically
> addresses this issue with the goal of getting NCTE to renege and
replace
> this statement with something more accurate and more consonant with
the
> wishes of parents and many, many educators, business men and
politicians?
>
> If there is such a group, I would like to participate. If there is no
> current group, I would be happy to take responsibility for setting one
up,
> chairing, and spearheading such a group. If there is no current
provision
> within ATEG for this sort of a group, perhaps interested parties could
> form an informal, ad hoc group, put together some joint research and
> positions papers, and offer this to ATEG/NCTE at a later point.
>
> Phil Bralich
>
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