I have been in grammar/syntax for over 25 years, but it is only on this list that I have heard of "Linguistic Grammar."  Are there formal descriptions and discussion of it available in journals and books?  Are there recognized authors on the subject?  Also, does anyone know where I might get a copy of Tim Hadley's dissertation?  

Phil Bralich

-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Feb 11, 2006 6:53 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: scope and sequence
>
>Cynthia,
>    This is a delightful post.  You should think about joining us this
>summer, as helper in the Scope and Sequence project and/or presenter.
>If you want, I could help set that up with Amy Benjamin.
>    Like you, I have been given a huge amount of space in coming up with
>curriculum for the Educational Opportunity Program students I teach. 
>As with you, some of that builds from success.    >
>    Without a set curriculum to work from, you have made some very
>thoughtful and creative choices. I like the way you try to get
>students ready to meet prescriptive standards, but seem at least
>equally interested in effectiveness and meaning.  (We have no history
>of talking about grammar in that way. Even generative grammar largely
>sees itself as irrelevant.) Australia is now teaching language
>awareness right from day one, with functional grammar as the
>underlying theory and "genre" (language in practice) as a focus.
>   My book is aimed at a semester course in college, but I have former
>students who are trying to apply it to high school.  Let me know if you
>want me to get them to send you a review copy.
>    Dedicated teaching creates its own rewards, but it can get lonely,
>especially when people in the profession seem totally unaware of what
>you are dealing with. The day we can give up grammar is the day we can
>give up words. It's especially pleasing to learn about people making
>sense out of nonsense, however awkward it can be at times.  Scope and
>Sequence should give some solidity, including advice, to teachers like
>yourself looking for a way to give students what they obviously need.
>
>Craig
>
>
>
>I assumed you wanted a private reply.
>>
>>   Thanks for the compliment on my post--I am as much impressed by many of
>> the people on this list as you are and after reading their messages for
>> several years now, I feel I almost "know" these people, especially the
>> regulars like you, Paul, and Johanna ( I really love her posts--she must
>> be an incredible instructor).
>>
>>   As to my approach--well, I have quite a bit of latitude in my school.
>> We are very small, rural, and few people take language arts seriously,
>> so I get away with quite a bit.  However, I am pleased to say that I
>> have a very good reputation for preparing students adequately for the
>> colleges they attend, and over the years I have had students attend in
>> colleges, both private and public, from Florida (e.g, Pensacola) to
>> Washington, and even West Point.  So, yes, I do have my school's
>> support, and since we are rural, my district tends to be more
>> traditional (you know, the 3 R's), English wouldn't be English to my
>> parents without the teaching of grammar.
>>
>>   I really just teach from the heart--common sense stuff--and have a great
>> respect and love for languages in general--my maternal grandparents were
>> Russian-German immigrants to this country, my husband's family are from
>> Applachia, and my siblings are spread from one coast to another, so I
>> have a great understanding of dialect and communication confusion!   I
>> have received instruction from both camps--pro- and anti-grammar--and
>> firmly believe that, whether conscious or subconscious, good writers are
>> good grammarians, and the best writers know how to break, bend, or
>> comply with the "rules" of grammar--they are true masters of the
>> language.
>>
>>   What I meant by layering is that each year I try to take two steps back
>> and one step forward, expecting students to review and master
>> previously-taught concepts (for example, I will not "teach" parts of
>> speech to 10th-graders--how absurd and, really, not that helpful) and
>> when I do review that concept, I throw in the "tests" that most
>> textbooks do not contain (e.g. nouns can be made plural, can follow
>> determiners alone, etc.) nor will I drill them (I do teach them, though)
>> on parts of the sentence because I don't think that level of grammar
>> helps much in writing or speaking.  I also use a math formula (if/then,
>> P + N, etc.) approach (again, not in textbooks) to teach phrases,
>> clauses, parts of the sentence, even parts of speech.  This approach
>> does work better with older students who have mastered algebra.
>> However, I will focus strongly on usage (not in a strict prescriptive
>> sense), which is a broad term and varies from textbook to textbook, but
>> usually covers informal wo!
>>  rd choice
>>  vs. formal word choice, proper use of modifiers (e.g. less/fewer, etc.),
>> at every grade level, reaching the final limit when I work with my
>> seniors on what I consider higher-level usage (e.g., proper use of
>> prepositions following verbs.  Do I say "explantion of" or "explanation
>> for,"  or "make amends with" or "make amends for"   By the way, I have
>> never found a high school textbook that addresses this area of usage--I
>> always have to refer to a usage handbook).  I had a wonderful linguistics
>> professor in college who came from a transformational grammar background
>> and I throw in lots of stuff I learned from him--my students all know
>> what a determiner is and I frequently argue with textbooks that confuse
>> verbs with participles (predicate adjectives) and reluctantly use the
>> Reed-Kellog method of diagramming (I am an X-bar fan, or tree
>> diagrammer).  I also stress agreement, logical use of subordinating
>> conjunctions, and teach puncutation from a grammatical perspective--for
>> examp!
>>  le, it's
>>  much easier to teach the use of semicolon and colon if students have an
>> understanding to independent clause or verb/object first.  Each year, the
>> amount of time I have to spend on review decreases as student cognitive
>> ability increases.  I don't drill on tenses until the senior year--by
>> then, they can understand mood, tense, and aspect so much more quickly.
>> Younger students can memorize irregular verb forms but I don't think they
>> really understand when to use the perfect tense--their knowledge is
>> simply mechanical.  My older students, who are writing quite critically
>> by that time, see the real need to use tenses and aspect correctly in
>> order to convey the meaning intended.  Same goes for many subordinating
>> conjunctions and conjunctive adverbs, which express relationships that
>> require critical thinking that many younger students simply do not have.
>>
>>   I don't know if that really explains to you what I do--so much of
>> teaching is second nature and arises to address the need before us
>> rather than from a prescribed curriculum.  My best description to people
>> who ask how I teach is that I go back and forth, in and out, up and down
>> with whatever I am teaching--writing, reading, or grammar.  My teaching
>> is linear, but not perfectly so.
>>
>>   thanks for asking--I look forward to your future posts!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   My supervising teacher during my student-teaching had spent a year in
>> Australia where, at least then, they delayed grammar instruction until
>> late high school because so much of grammar is highly abstract. I
>> believe that.
>>
>> Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>   I was away from my mail for a day or so, so I'll reply to a number of
>> posts in one message.
>> Paul, I very much enjoyed your "rant" (much more sensible than the term
>> implies.) It would be nice to have a sense of scaffolding so that
>> students entering high school would have a solid base of knowledge
>> about language to build on.
>> Cynthia, I was impressed as much by the tone of your post as I was by
>> its substance. I would love to know more about your approach and how
>> you layer things in over those three grades. Are you supported by the
>> school?
>> Jan, Allison, I'm sorry if I created the impression that a scope and
>> sequence draft already exists. What I was hoping to say, no doubt
>> awkwardly, is that we should make it a very open process, and that
>> everyone should have a chance to read it and comment on it as it
>> unfolds. The ATEG website would be a natural place.
>> A good place to start for reading about grammar would be Grammar
>> Alive, put together by ATEG members and published by NCTE. It lacks
>> scope and sequence sections because, if I understand this correctly,
>> NCTE would not have published it if it had. You can't do wrong with
>> Martha Kolln's two books (Understanding Grammar and Rhetorical
>> Grammar.) A book I have found enormously rich and helpful is
>> Halliday's Introduction to Functional Grammar, now in its third
>> edition. It's not easy going, but I much prefer it to the softer
>> explanations I have looked at so far. My own attempt at a new kind of
>> synthesis (Meaning-Centered Grammar) is now in print. It's aimed at
>> being a text for a college course in grammar, but I'm hoping it's
>> readable and accessible. Ed Schuster's Breaking the Rules... casts a
>> critical eye on entrenched practices and includes advice about
>> teaching the rest. Lots of people like Joseph Williams' Ten Easy
>> Lessons in Style and Grace (It comes in a few different forms with
>> different titles.) All of these are easily googled and all are readily
>> available from Amazon. I'm sure other people on the list could add
>> their own suggestions.
>> A good next step for the project would be to divide it up into smaller
>> units, delegate responsibilities, and sign people up. The SCOPE
>> section will be critical:it should include what a well educated
>> citizen ought to know (on graduation from high school.) The SEQUENCE
>> section would give advice for parceling that out (scaffolding) over
>> various age levels. We should have an OFFICIAL POSITION, a clear and
>> direct alternative to the position of NCTE. We need to make
>> recommendations for ASSESSMENT, which should include a position on
>> standardized testing practices and procedures. We should make
>> recommendations about TEACHER TRAINING, the preparation that would
>> help teachers confidently carry this out. I would also suggest
>> recommendations for CURRICULAR PRACTICES, including ways in which
>> grammar instruction should be integrated with critical reading and
>> writing. Obviously, each of these sections should work in harmony with
>> the others.
>> Anyone who want to be a part of it should let me know and let me know
>> your preferences and what you bring to the project.
>>
>> Craig
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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