ATEG Archives

February 2006

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:55:42 -0800
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (171 lines)
Hi Shannon,

One of my great joys as a teacher is encouraging students who work hard and
want to succeed.  So, you brought this on yourself!  I just checked and the
financial aid office is sending me some applications. I'll have them with
me when you see me (probably by Monday).  Deadline is April 21st.  She did
say something about it being for new students, but I didn't know exactly
what that meant. You can read the requirements to see if you are eligible.
You must be have a 3.2 or greater. I'm sure the competition will be fierce
so a 3.2 is probably way low. You can also pick up an application at Fin
Aid if your curiosity is too great. Scholarships like these look great on a
resume too.  Let me know if I can help with anything, such as a
recommendation.  YES, I believe in you!  Shame on the others for not doing
the same. 

Good luck.
Nancy


> [Original Message]
> From: Phil Bralich <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 2/23/2006 2:44:58 PM
> Subject: Re: "work for" plus adverb clause
>
> Actually the durative meaning is not required by the verb but is a result
of the presence of the preposition "for".    The "for" brings a durative
sense of course but this is the nature of the preposition and has nothing
to do with the verb. In fact I have seen books discuss "for-adverbs" where
any durative adverb such as briefly, temporarily, long, short, as well as
the noun-like adverbs two weeks, two years, and so forth are included as
large complex adverb when they occur with for.  Perhaps the best solution
then is just to note that the fore adverb class also includes complex
comparative constructions as in the original example, "John worked for as
long as he liked" where we take the entirety of "for as long as he liked"
as 
>
> That being said, I am not completely on board with the solution as I find
the following acceptable and unnacceptable as marked.  
>
> John worked as short as he liked
> *John worked for as short as he liked
> John worked as briefly as he liked
> *John worked for as briefly as he liked.  
>
> I also think you'd be quite in the minority accepting "John worked for a
short as he could", but it is unlikely that anyone would accept "John
worked for as hard as he could".  I think the uniqueness of the original
sentence and the lack of parallels above marks it as exceptional or slangy
rather than rule based.  
>
>
> Phil Bralich
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Stahlke, Herbert F.W." <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Feb 23, 2006 4:36 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: "work for" plus adverb clause
> >
> >Phil,
> >
> >The second, with "happily", is blocked because of the durative meaning
> >required with this sense of "work". Actually, I like "John worked for as
> >short as he could" better than without the "for."  I'm not sure I'd use
> >either in formal writing, but in speech they're fine.
> >
> >Herb
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Bralich
> >Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:59 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: "work for" plus adverb clause
> >
> >Herb,
> >
> >Either of the two solutions you suggest are still hamstrung by the fact
> >that in either of those cases "for" requires a noun object and thus the
> >comparative phrase in the example is striking.  For example you cannot
> >say, "John worked for as short as he could" or "for as happilly as he
> >could."  If what you say is correct, those should be equally allowed.  
> >
> >Phil Bralich
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >>From: "Stahlke, Herbert F.W." <[log in to unmask]>
> >>Sent: Feb 23, 2006 12:19 PM
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: Re: "work for" plus adverb clause
> >>
> >>Kathleen,
> >>
> >>I think this is a case where the language allows alternative
> >>complementation to "work".  The "for" here may be by analogy either to
> >>the benefactive "for", as in "He worked for his sister", or to the
> >>durational "for" as in "he talked for two hours."  But the verb "work"
> >>allows either a bare time adverb, like "he worked two hours" or the
> >>temporal prepositional phrase "he worked for two hours."  You don't
> >have
> >>to call it an idiom.  They're simply alternative structures.
> >>
> >>Herb
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> >>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathleen M. Ward
> >>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:54 PM
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Subject: "work for" plus adverb clause
> >>
> >>One of my students asked me what to do with the following sentence:
> >>
> >>	He worked for as long as he could.
> >>
> >>Now, "as long as he could" is, I think pretty clearly an adverbial 
> >>phrase, containing in itself a comparative clause with deletions.  The 
> >>question is, what do you do with the "for"?  I understand that it can 
> >>be omitted--and then the analysis is easier.  But I would not want to 
> >>say that an adverbial phrase can be a complement/object of a 
> >>preposition.  Is "for" a preposition here?  Is it a particle? Do I just
> >
> >>throw up my hands and call it an idiom?
> >>
> >>How do other people see this?
> >>
> >>Kathleen Ward
> >>UC Davis
> >>
> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>interface at:
> >>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >>and select "Join or leave the list"
> >>
> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>
> >>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >interface at:
> >>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >>and select "Join or leave the list"
> >>
> >>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >interface at:
> >     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
> >     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

ATOM RSS1 RSS2