This discussion touches on a point that has interested me for years.  I
have long felt that one of the abiding qualities of good literature, if
not its very essence, is its capacity to accommodate diametrically opposed
interpretations.  Hay for Horses is as clear an example of this
proposition as could be imagined.  Although none of the details mentioned
lend any credence to the notion that haying is a pleasant experience, the
fact that the protagonist has done it for his entire life obviously raises
the possibility that he derives some joy from it.  It is the tension
between the contradictory interpretations that makes the poem interesting.
But the real answer the question of which interpretation is correct is
that there is no answer.  The guy in the poem doesn't REALLY feel anything
about his haying career because he doesn't really exist. He is a radically
ambiguous figment.

As important as I think grammar is, it seems to me that grammatical
features do not have any power to disambiguate a work of art of this
nature.  They create a certain range of possible, literal interpretations,
defining logical relationships.  The feelings evoked by grammatical
structures will vary from reader to reader.

Dave Mulroy





On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Nancy Patterson wrote:

> I'm going to disagree with the "joyful" interpretation of the man's
> statement.  I think this is simply the stripped down language of a tired 68
> year old man (and Snyder).  The man could have grinned.  He could have
> laughed.  But he didn't.  He simply said he had been bucking hay most of his
> adult life.  Snyder doesn't talk about how lovely the hay chaff looked as it
> drifted through the shafts of light.  He talks about how it itched under
> sweaty shirts.  There aren't many people who enjoy "haying" as it's called
> in mid-Michigan.  It's sweaty.  It's itchy.  And it's plain hard work. I
> teach in a rural community and even with modern machinery, baling hay is not
> a job people look forward to.  As a "non-hayer" I can tell it smells good
> when there haying going on.  But I've never been haying and I don't intend
> to start.  I don't think we should make hay bucking into some romantic
> endeavor.  And it's not really like Snyder to romanticize something like
> this, as I recall.
>
> And, yes, feel free to use anything in the powerpoint presentation.  That's
> why I uploaded it--to share.
> Nancy
>
> At 04:52 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >Helene,
> >    Thank you.  Feel free to use my comments.  As for Paul's point about
> >the positive, almost joyful tone underlying the final comments, I think
> >the grammatical aspects may well play a part.  All his statements are
> >active and, except for "hate," the verbs are quite positive and dynamic:
> >bucked, thought, started, gone and done.  "I" is the subject of all the
> >clauses.  None of the sentence subjects are outside forces that are to
> >blame for ruining his life; he seems to accept the responsibility for
> >the way the years have gone.
> >
> >Brock
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Helene Krauthamer
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Sent: 7/4/01 1:32 PM
> >Subject: Re: Grammar and Snyder's Hay for the Horses
> >
> >Brock (or Nancy),
> >
> >Thank you for such a beautiful illustration of how
> >grammatical knowledge helps us to read poetry.
> >The tutors in my lab have been building a website
> >(called the UDC Reading/Writing Connection) where we
> >have been looking for examples just like this one to
> >show the connections between reading, writing, and
> >grammar.  May we use this sample, particularly your
> >wonderful interpretation, Brock?  We will, of course,
> >be giving appropriate acknowledgements.
> >
> >Helene
> Nancy G. Patterson
> Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
> Portland, MI  48875
>
> "To educate as the practice of freedom is a way of teaching that anyone can
> learn."
>
> --bell hooks
>
>  [log in to unmask]
> http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
> http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
>
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