Dear Herb:

I think you said it very well: "A culture culture tends to have the 
vocabulary it needs." An illiterate society needs at most a survival 
language. When I lived in New York City the people I met on the 
street were speaking a Gastarbait English, that is, about 200 words 
on the average, and nothing more. Sorry, but this is not my culture.

You must also consider lexical attrition and language death. Are 
these also insignificant changes? I don't think so. And yes, because 
I am fully bilingual I can tell you from experience that the size of 
a language lexicon makes a difference. Not all languages are equal. 
The larger your language lexicon is, the better you can express the 
concepts and notions you are dealing with. 

I believe that those who believe that language change is neutral are 
monolingual and have had very little exposure to the cultures of the 
world, otherwise they would not express such an absurdity. I have 
command of Romanian and English, and I can read a novelin French,and 
I can see from experience what it is to read  the same novel in all 
three languages: an extraordinary difference. And this difference is 
in the largest degree due to the lexicon.

Ed Vavra asked me a little while ago to talk a little about my 
background, and maybe now is a good time. I grew up in Romania and 
went to public school there. Because I loved languages I took as 
many (languages) as I could. I took Romanian for 12 years, Russian 
for eight years (from the fifth to the 12th grade), French and Latin 
for four years (from the 9th to the 12th grade). 

In the 11th grade I began to study English on my own, from grammar 
books, language textbooks, and from different recordings. I 
continued to study English with my family, so that when we came to 
the United States we were all fluent in English. 

My passion for language seemed to grow all the time, so I went to 
college in New York City, and obtained a B.A. in Linguistics from 
CUNY. I moved then to Indiana, and continued with graduate education 
in Linguistics, which I completed with an M.A. in Linguistics/TESOL.
At the present time I am continuing my education towards a Ph.D. in 
Language Education from Indiana State.

As you see, my knowledge of language includes an experience with 
traditional grammar and British English in Romania, and Linguistics 
in the United States. The fact that I have lived on two continents 
and I have been exposed to a variety of cultures makes it possible 
for me to compare cultures and languages and debunk some of the 
myths which are so common in a culture which is mostly monolingual 
and with very little exposure to the cultures of the world.

Eduard






On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Herbert F.W. Stahlke wrote...

>Eduard,
>
>With my question I was taking the Aitchins position, one that is 
very
>widely held in linguistics.  As to loss and gain in the lexicon, a
>culture tends to have the vocabulary it needs.  Without getting into
>what Geoffrey Pullum has properly called "The Great Eskimo 
Vocabulary
>Hoax," we can look at domains like kinship terms.  I'm sure that in 
the
>languages you know different relationships are named that are not 
the
>same from language to language.  In Yoruba, for example, there is no
>word for brother or sister.  The contrast is based on age relative 
to
>ego, so egbon means "senior sibling" and aburo means "junior 
sibling",
>rather than on sex as in English.  If young people are losing the
>distinctions among "soil", "land", "ground", and "mud" it may be 
that
>those distinctions are no longer salient in a highly urbanized 
culture.
>At the same time they are developing and acquiring names for myriad
>devices that we didn't know about at their age.  Whether this loss 
is
>good or bad depends on whether you have talk about a domain in which
>those distinctions are important.  For most people today, that set 
may
>be less salient than it used to be.  But notice that as young people
>specialize, they very quickly acquire the new vocabulary they're 
going
>to need in their discipline or hobby.
>
>Herb
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eduard C. Hanganu
>Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:19 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Language Change
>
>Dear Herb:
>
>Aitchins (and others)claim that language change is neither 
positive=20
>nor negative. I disagree. One language change that is definitely=20
>negative is loss of words due to cumulating (or collapsing)
multiple=20
>senses into one single word. =20
>
>I the region where I live, for example, people have been using 
more=20
>and more the word "dirt" to 
describe "soil, "land," "ground," "mud,"=20
>and "garbage." While some of these words have overlapping senses,=20
>each term has its own specific use. Collapsing all these words 
into=20
>one word is a lexical loss for the language, and leads to a 
survival=20
>lexicon.
>
>Eduard=20
>
>
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Herbert F.W. Stahlke wrote...
>
>>Craig,
>>
>>I'd like to see more comment on your last clause, "and it may 
not=20
>always
>>seem for the best."  Therein lies a mammoth body of social=20
>judgments and
>>prescriptivist nostrums.  The question is whether there are 
language
>>changes that are in some definable sense good or bad.
>>
>>Herb
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
>>Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:12 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: comparing superlatives (was: Blue Color; each other)
>>
>>Paul,
>>   I'm with you on one level.  It's a shame when a perfectly fine
>>(indeed,
>>a unique word) begins to lose its special quality.  You would 
like=20
>to
>>use it in such a way that everyone knows you mean "one of a 
kind".=20
>It's
>>the kind of point I enjoy from William Safire in his columns.  Your
>>students, though, are used to thinking of it as meaning "unusual"
>>because that is a common meaning for it in actual use. I confess 
I=20
>have
>>probably said "very unique" without thinking about it as
>>problematic.>Thanks to your conversation, I have now looked 
closely=20
>at
>>the dictionary and deepened my understanding.
>>   I love the idea that you would talk to your students about it. 
=20
>When
>>language changes, something is gained and something is lost. You=20
>care
>>about fine shades of meaning, as we all should. Ultimately, I think
>>decisions about these sorts of changes are out of our hands.  A 
word
>>means what people think it means. But I also think that sort of
>>discussion with students is very productive. Language changes over
>>time, and it may not always seem for the best.
>>
>>
>>Craig,
>>>
>>>   My problem with "very unique" is that unique means (to ME), 
one=20
>of a
>>> kind (or some emphatic variation of that idea). It is 
illogical=20
>to me
>>to
>>> say that something can be "very one of a kind" or "most one of a
>>kind."
>>> I'm not sure how I feel about "thoroughly unique" and "absolutely
>>> unique;" for some reason, and I am hard pressed to express 
what=20
>that
>>> reason is, the logic doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm being too fussy
>>about
>>> that usage. What I really meant to emphasise in my previous post,
>>> however, was that many of my students couldn't see the logical=20
>problem
>>> in the expression in the first place.
>>>
>>>   It's curious that the two most "objectional" examples from 
the=20
>OED
>>below
>>> are first from the voice of a toad (In "The Wind in the Willows")
=20
>and
>>> next from an advertisement (Country Life, 1939). I guess that
>>fictional
>>> toads and real-life ad copy writers have a different sent of=20
>standards
>>> from mine!
>>>
>>>   So it goes,
>>>
>>>   Paul D.
>>>
>>> Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>   >Paul,
>>> I just remembered I can access the OED if I use my UAlbany=20
>account.
>>> Here's a section copied from their entry for "unique". It has 
been
>>> "Objected to", as they say, but a fairly common practice in 
their=20
>own
>>> examples, dating back well into the nineteenth century.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>> From the OED, the second entry for "unique":
>>>
>>> 2. a. That is or forms the only one of its kind; having no like 
or
>>> equal; standing alone in comparison with others, freq. by 
reason=20
>of
>>> superior excellence; unequalled, unparalleled, unrivalled.
>>> In this sense readopted from French at the end of the 18th c. and
>>> regarded as a foreign word down to the middle of the 19th, 
from=20
>which
>>> date it has been in very common use, with a tendency to take 
the=20
>wider
>>> meaning of 'uncommon, unusual, remarkable'.
>>> The usage in the comparative and superlative, and with advs. as
>>> absolutely, most, quite, thoroughly, totally, etc., has been=20
>objected
>>to
>>> as tautological.
>>>
>>> 1618 W. BARCLAY Well at King-horne Avij, This is a soueraigne and
>>vnicke
>>> remedie for that disease in Women. 1794 R. J. SULIVAN View 
Nat.=20
>I. 3 A
>>> concentrated, and an unique aggregation of almost all the 
wonders=20
>of
>>the
>>> natural world. 1809 R. K. PORTER Trav. Sk. Russia & Sweden (1813)
=20
>I.
>>xxv.
>>> 285 As it was thoroughly unique, I cannot forbear presenting 
you=20
>with
>>so
>>> singular a curiosity. 1842 J. P. COLLIER Armin's Nest Ninn.=20
>Introd., A
>>> relic..not only unique in itself, but unprecedented in its 
kind.=20
>1866
>>> LIDDON Bamp. Lect. v. (1867) 368 [Christ's] relationship to the
>>Father..is
>>> absolutely unique. 1871 B. TAYLOR Faust (1875) II. II. i. 84 A=20
>thing
>>so
>>> totally unique The great collectors would go far to seek. 1885
>>Harper's
>>> Mag. April 703/1 When..these summer guests found themselves=20
>defrauded
>>of
>>> their uniquest recreations. 1908 K. GRAHAME Wind in Willows 
viii.=20
>168
>>> 'Toad Hall,' said the Toad proudly, 'is an eligible self-
contained
>>> gentleman's residence, very unique.' 1912 CHESTERTON Manalive 
I.=20
>iii.
>>86
>>> Diana Duke..began putting away the tea things. But it was not=20
>before
>>> Inglewood had seen an instantaneous picture so unique that he=20
>might
>>well
>>> have snapshotted it. 1939 Country Life 11 Feb. p. xviii/2 
(Advt.),
>>Almost
>>> the most unique residential site along the south coast. 1960 [see
>>DIQUAT].
>>> 1980 Verbatim Autumn 15/2 A high-ranking state Alcoholic Beverage
>>> Commission official said Friday that Wednesday's retroactive=20
>renewal
>>and
>>> transfer of the beverage permit of the rural Bloomington 
Liars'=20
>Lodge
>>by
>>> the Monroe County Alcoholic Beverage Board was 'unique but not
>>uncommon'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doesn't the 'each' automatically make the 'other' singular?
>>>>
>>>> Paul D.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of redundancy, my students often struggle against 
the=20
>notion
>>>> that "very unique" doesn't make sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> stein wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here is your posting Joanne.
>>>> Thank you, Herb and Paul for responding to my question.
>>>> Dalia
>>>> -------Original Message-------
>>>>
>>>> From: Johanna Rubba
>>>> Date: 03/15/06 02:51:00
>>>> To: stein
>>>> Cc: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>>>> Subject: Re: Blue Color; each other
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dalia,
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if you could post this for me: (Thanks!)
>>>>
>>>> "I like the blue color" could be another example of the tendency
>>>> towards redundant expressions which seems to be strong in 
English
>>right
>>>> now. My students often write things like "equally as good";=20
>there's
>>the
>>>> old "refer back"; "both my sister and brother share this=20
>tendency";
>>and
>>>> others that don't come readily to mind. I can imagine someone
>>>> responding to a question like "Which color shirt do you like=20
>best?"
>>>> with "The blue color." "Color" links the answer to the 
question,=20
>and
>>>> puts the queried word ("which color") in the answer.
>>>>
>>>> I also have a query about "each other" -- how do we make it
>>possessive,
>>>> as in
>>>>
>>>> "They are always snooping into each other's business." Should 
it=20
>be <
>>>> each others' > ? I keep doing a Gestalt shift on this; right 
now=20
>the
>>>> first one looks right. How about a clear more-than-two:
>>>>
>>>> "The students then proofread each other's papers." Here, the 
<'s>
>>looks
>>>> wrong; the coreference with the plural "students" is getting 
in=20
>the
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
>>>> Linguistics Minor Advisor
>>>> English Department
>>>> California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
>>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Tel.: 805.756.2184
>>>> Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596
>>>> Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374
>>>> URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
>>>>
>>>> This mail was scanned via Beit Berl PineApp
>>>>
>>>>
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