Phil: I've been reading what you have to say, and I think you are absolutely 
on to something. I would love to be able to add a grammar certification to 
my credentials. You are right that far too many public school teachers 
(including English majors) do not know grammar adequately well to explain it 
to their students, so they just ignore that aspect of teaching English. 
Certainly the TESOL people do much better--because they are required to have 
those courses--but those of us who haven't any classes in TESOL have been 
somewhat hard-pressed to find many college courses which explicitly teach 
grammar. I'm with you! Helene Hoover


>From: Phil Bralich <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar              
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Grammar Certification
>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:01:09 -0400
>
>The difficulty I am talking about is that those who take those classes 
>often have trouble recognizing and communicating the parts of speech, parts 
>of sentence, and sentence types as well as relations between sentences and 
>clauses.  They may have some interesting views but they lack this basic 
>knowledege.  It is missing because it was ignored in elementary school, 
>ignored in secondary school and presupposed in post secondary and graduate 
>school.  The certificate, takes the problem of remediation out of the 
>formal programs and leaves it to a separte certificate program.  This would 
>be good for community colleges to offer and useful for all professionals to 
>demonstrate they had the basic skills rather.  And don't forget most 
>leaving those programs you refer to simply do not have the skills we are 
>talking about.
>
>Phil Bralich
>
>-----Original Message-----
> >From: dabro <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Aug 30, 2006 12:39 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Grammar Certification
> >
> > Phil:For TESL certification, or an MA TESL, prospective teachers often 
>study syntax, semantics, pragmatics, sociolinguistics, and discourse 
>analysis. Is this not grammar in use? I believe it is. Peace,David 
>BrownEFL/ESL teacherLong Beach, CA--- On Wed 08/30, Phil Bralich < 
>[log in to unmask] > wrote:
> >From: Phil Bralich [mailto: [log in to unmask]]To: 
>[log in to unmask]: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 07:46:49 -0700Subject: Re: 
>Grammar CertificationThat's nice, but it still leaves room for someone not 
>to know that participial phrase and a reduced adejective clause are the 
>same thing. A certification test for grammar alone independent of getting a 
>Master's would be a real service for those who want and can teach grammar 
>and for those who want to hire qualified grammar teachers. It is also one 
>more line, one more certification on a C.V. so it cannot be a bad thing. 
>This would have been the best response to reports that grammar study was 
>somehow unimportant or ineffective. I have always been convinced that most 
>of the anti-grammar movement got its support primarily from those afraid of 
>being called to account for an insufficient background in grammar. To this 
>day whenever I hear someone extolling anti-grammar attitudes I immediately 
>know they will be EXTREMELY defensive abo!
>  u!
> >
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