Bob,
     I'm perplexed by the reply. I don't recall saying anything about 
your work or Jim's work in the post. I don't recall addressing 
"developmental writing" directly.
     My apologies if I have somehow insulted you without trying to. I 
have no idea where your anger is coming from, but I can sense that it is 
real.
    I would like to think that the ATEG list is a place where differing 
views can be presented collegially. I would certainly look with interest 
at your direct response to John's question.

Craig


On 8/30/2011 1:07 PM, Robert Yates wrote:
> Really?
>
>>>> Craig Hancock<[log in to unmask]>  08/30/11 10:56 AM>>>
>   Much of twentieth century linguistics has done exactly that, dealing with grammar as separate from
> the lexicon and from pragmatics and from cognition. Of course, if you
> study grammar as an isolated formal system, it will be difficult to
> apply that to--for example--writing. You need to devise a whole other
> set of "rules" before that knowledge can be put to use.
>
> Thanks Craig for once again writing in this public forum that the work Jim Kenkel and I have done over the last decade has absolutely nothing to say about developmental writing.
>
> For an example of what Craig dismisses, you might want to read:
>
> Kenkel, J.&  Yates, R. (2009).  The interlanguage grammar of information in L1 and L2 developmental writing.  Written Communication, 26/4, 392-416.
>
> Someday you might actually read that work, Craig, and explain how that paper is seriously flawed and your perspective is more insightful.
>
> Let me make the following challenge so you can stop writing the above: Let's  propose a presentation at a conference and you can tell me to my face why my work has nothing to say about the teaching of writing to developmental writers.
>
> In the meantime, I'm more than willing to tell you why Systemic Functional Linguistics can't explain (at least the papers I know) why developmental writers do what they do.
>
> Of course, it could be we are interested in two different things: you want to describe developmental writing as how it deviates from some standard while Jim and I have been interested in understanding what the underlying principles are that result in such deviations.
>
> In the meantime, your last post is incredibly offensive to the work Jim Kenkel and I have done. and you know this because i have written this before. Please educate yourself and stop it or tell me how our work is useless and you assumptions are to be preferred.
>
> Bob Yates
>
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