There is a place for the get + passive but I consider got run over
to be nonstandard. We were asked for opinions: I gave mine. If you
believe that 'got run over' is standard English, ATEG is a wide tent.
I cannot attend ATEG; it conflicts with another conference at which I
have agreed to make a presentation.
The dangers of a corpus for me is the source of information. For example,
in the mid-50s and the '60s, the Orlando Sentinel was a font of good
writing and standard English--and the proofreaders were charged with
ensuring that standard English grammar, usage, and punctuation were
observed. Except in the Sports Edition, where colloquial English was
expected, a proofreader could expect a reprimand (or a pink slip) for
signing off on a page with an error. In the late '80s I was teaching
Standard English writing in a Los Angeles business school to a primarily
native-born hispanohablante population--focussing on the errors that they
made and would need to correct before they could get a position in a
business. At a Mensa social I was discussing some of the errors that I
encountered when the self-identified Editor of the LA Times strongly
suggested that I should be using the LA Times in my classroom as a primary
source. I agreed just as strongly and stated that, no matter what type of
error I was addressing, I could always count in the LA Times to have an
example on the Front page or the Editorial page.
I shall order the article by Van der Auwera from my university library.
We must understand competence in order to understand how to improve
performance--above all, with ESOL. Competence (naïve or formally acquired)
precedes performance but, of course, does not guarantee it. My favorite
example comes from a mathematics class my first year of teaching in which
every student could tell me how to divide a fraction but only one could do
so.
Scott Catledge
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 20 Feb 2009 to 21 Feb 2009 (#2009-41)
There are 8 messages totalling 801 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. he was run over/he got run over ATEG Digest - 19 Feb 2009 to 20 Feb
2009
(#2009-40) (2)
2. 2009 ATEG Conference (2)
3. more on attributive "aware" (2)
4. relative that--a contrary view
5. On the importance of the competence-performance distinction for
language
teachers
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:20:41 -0500
From: Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: he was run over/he got run over ATEG Digest - 19 Feb 2009 to 20
Feb 2009 (#2009-40)
I would consider "He got run over" and "He done been run over" as
barely literate passives except when used jocularly.
N. Scott Catledge
Professor Emeritus (ret.)
history & languages
P.S. I get a few entries of comment and a score of pages of garbage
on this list; I saw no legible entries on "such as." Could someone
repeat the question (and pertinent comments)?
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:17:17 -0500
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: he was run over/he got run over ATEG Digest - 19 Feb 2009 to 20
Feb 2009 (#2009-40)
"done been" is clearly non-standard and stigmatized. But there is a place =
for the get-passive, and we use it regularly with some verbs: get engaged,=
get married, get divorced, get killed, etc., where it's the change of stat=
e or condition that is important. In many cases it does mark an informal r=
egister.
Herb=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: 2009-02-21 07:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: he was run over/he got run over ATEG Digest - 19 Feb 2009 to 2=
0 Feb 2009 (#2009-40)
I would consider "He got run over" and "He done been run over" as
barely literate passives except when used jocularly.=20
N. Scott Catledge
Professor Emeritus (ret.)
history & languages
P.S. I get a few entries of comment and a score of pages of garbage
on this list; I saw no legible entries on "such as." Could someone
repeat the question (and pertinent comments)? =20
**********************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:10:27 EST
From: Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2009 ATEG Conference
-------------------------------1235236227
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please post a registration form for the 2009 conference at U of Md.
Thanks!
In a message dated 2/17/2009 11:06:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Hi All,
I am making the following announcement because, ironically enough, Amy is
unable to post to the listserv.
The annual ATEG Conference is up and ready for presenter proposals and
conference registration. The theme for this year (July 9 and 10, at the
College
Park campus of the University of Maryland) is YES WE CAN! (TEACH GRAMMAR!)
The programs are always very interesting and the participants are
extraordinarily collegial, so plan to attend if you possibly can.
For more information, visit ATEG.org or, more specifically, go to the
following link:
_http://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php_ (http://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php)
Hope to see you there!
John
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**************Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntusye
lp00000003)
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-------------------------------1235236227
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16809" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: #000000;
FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT
id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D4>
<DIV><FONT size=3D4>Please post a registration form for the 2009
conference=20=
at U=20
of Md. Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/17/2009 11:06:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20
[log in to unmask] writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px
solid"><=
FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>Hi=20
All,<BR><BR>I am making the following announcement because, ironically
eno=
ugh,=20
Amy is unable to post to the listserv.<BR><BR>The annual ATEG Conference
i=
s up=20
and ready for presenter proposals and conference registration. The
t=
heme=20
for this year (July 9 and 10, at the College Park campus of the
University=
of=20
Maryland) is YES WE CAN! (TEACH GRAMMAR!) The programs are always
ve=
ry=20
interesting and the participants are extraordinarily collegial, so plan
to=
=20
attend if you possibly can.<BR><BR>For more information, visit ATEG.org
or=
,=20
more specifically, go to the following link:<BR><BR><A=20
title=3Dhttp://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php=20
href=3D"http://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php">http://ateg.org/conferences/c=
20.php</A><BR><BR>Hope=20
to see you there!<BR><BR>John<BR>To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
plea=
se=20
visit the list's web interface at:=20
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
th=
e=20
list"=20
<P>Visit ATEG's web site at=20
http://ateg.org/</P></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT><br/><font
style=3D"col=
or:black;font:normal 10pt arial,san-serif;"> <hr
style=3D"margin-top:10px"/>=
Need a job? <a
href=3D"http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=3Demployment_=
agencies&ncid=3Demlcntusyelp00000003">Find an employment agency near
you</a>=
.</font></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
-------------------------------1235236227--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:29:52 -0500
From: "R. Michael Medley (GLS)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: more on attributive "aware"
I'd like to thank those of you who took the time to respond to my query
about the use of "aware" as an attributive adjective.
I have never in my career had a student who blew up in class and started
screaming at me until just the other day, and it was precipitated by a
discussion of whether "aware" was used attributively or predicatively.
Since I usually try to turn uncomfortable incidents like this into
educational opportunities, I did a little further research on "aware,"
including taking an informal poll from my colleagues and you. The
colleagues in my department at EMU voted 4-0 for answer B (meaning that
they consider phrases like "an aware person" as grammatically okay but
stylistically awkward). From both on- and off-list responses from ATEG
participants, I got a similar consensus.
What I was trying to do in posing this question was to find some
correlation between your intuitions and corpus data on the use of "aware"
to which we all have ready access. I am learning to use Mark Davies'
Corpus of Contemporary American English www.americancorpus.org (though I
still know only rudimentary search codes). Here are the results from
Davies' 385 million word corpus:
Total occurrences of "aware" in the corpus: 24,619
Odds of "aware" being followed by "of" = 66/100
Odds of "aware" being preceded by a linking verb = 47/100
Odds of "aware" being followed by a noun = >1/100 (0.06%)
Upon closer examination of the data, you also begin to find that not all
instances of "aware + N" mean "aware" is being used attributively because
the search also turns up items like this: "a teacher might be very
surprised to know how aware students are of what's going on...." --which
is really an example of "aware + of." And there are also quirks in the
database such as a spate of news stories about an abortion clinic called
"Aware Woman Center for Choice."
I believe that these statistics correlate with the judgments that my
respondents gave. Because the usage is very rare, we tend to judge it as
stylistically awkward.
I was intrigued, however, by Brian O'Sullivan's comment about the role of
audience and purpose" in making a usage like "aware + N" an appropriate
choice. I went back to see how the attributive use of "aware" was
distributed across the main sections of the corpus--spoken language,
fiction, magazines, newspapers, and academic writing. Academic writing
showed the highest usage of this structure compared with the others, and
the usage was found in all the other sections.
Although the attributive usage of "aware" is very rare, I think that Brian
is essentially correct in suggesting that context can make this usage feel
right. Here's a quotation from the longer passage that Brian mentioned as
sounding "New Age." It's from a science fiction novel by Piers Anthony
entitled The Shame of Man (I've highlighted the key strings in caps).
This passage seems to be referring to a supposed stage in the evolution of
the human mind.
"There was a need to share what went beyond vocabulary, however
sophisticated the language might be. This may have been where the arts
came in. The sophisticated symbolism of language was only one ability of
the new mind; it could appreciate the symbolism of a sculpture, or a
drawing, or a dance, or music. Music, perhaps more than any other art,
appealed directly to THE AWARE MIND, and stirred special emotions in it.
When ONE AWARE PERSON sang, and others listened, all of them knew that the
others were experiencing similar awareness. They were sharing the feelings
of their own kind. And so self-consciousness may have led to complex
language and all of the arts, including perhaps the art of love. Those of
the new mind were not only able to communicate in ways others literally
could not dream of, they were able to share feelings others lacked."
I think if I had been reading this passage before doing this
investigation, I would not have blinked at this usage. What I have
discovered gives me some pause about making generalizations that
characterize certain usages as "bad" until I have seen the context. I can
still tell students, it is not very likely for the string "aware + N" to
occur in English so be very careful that it is contextually appropriate if
you decide to use it.
R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisonburg, VA 22802
[log in to unmask] (540) 432-4051
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:28:25 -0500
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: more on attributive "aware"
Thank you, Michael. This is the sort of post that raises ATEG above the le=
vel of a lot of lists I've been on. Thoughtful, informative, carefully res=
earched.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of R. Michael Medley (GLS)
Sent: 2009-02-21 12:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: more on attributive "aware"
I'd like to thank those of you who took the time to respond to my query
about the use of "aware" as an attributive adjective.
I have never in my career had a student who blew up in class and started
screaming at me until just the other day, and it was precipitated by a
discussion of whether "aware" was used attributively or predicatively.=20
Since I usually try to turn uncomfortable incidents like this into
educational opportunities, I did a little further research on "aware,"
including taking an informal poll from my colleagues and you. The
colleagues in my department at EMU voted 4-0 for answer B (meaning that
they consider phrases like "an aware person" as grammatically okay but
stylistically awkward). From both on- and off-list responses from ATEG
participants, I got a similar consensus.
What I was trying to do in posing this question was to find some
correlation between your intuitions and corpus data on the use of "aware"
to which we all have ready access. I am learning to use Mark Davies'
Corpus of Contemporary American English www.americancorpus.org (though I
still know only rudimentary search codes). Here are the results from
Davies' 385 million word corpus:
Total occurrences of "aware" in the corpus: 24,619
Odds of "aware" being followed by "of" =3D 66/100
Odds of "aware" being preceded by a linking verb =3D 47/100
Odds of "aware" being followed by a noun =3D >1/100 (0.06%)
Upon closer examination of the data, you also begin to find that not all
instances of "aware + N" mean "aware" is being used attributively because
the search also turns up items like this: "a teacher might be very
surprised to know how aware students are of what's going on...." --which
is really an example of "aware + of." And there are also quirks in the
database such as a spate of news stories about an abortion clinic called
"Aware Woman Center for Choice."
I believe that these statistics correlate with the judgments that my
respondents gave. Because the usage is very rare, we tend to judge it as
stylistically awkward.
I was intrigued, however, by Brian O'Sullivan's comment about the role of
audience and purpose" in making a usage like "aware + N" an appropriate
choice. I went back to see how the attributive use of "aware" was
distributed across the main sections of the corpus--spoken language,
fiction, magazines, newspapers, and academic writing. Academic writing
showed the highest usage of this structure compared with the others, and
the usage was found in all the other sections.
Although the attributive usage of "aware" is very rare, I think that Brian
is essentially correct in suggesting that context can make this usage feel
right. Here's a quotation from the longer passage that Brian mentioned as
sounding "New Age." It's from a science fiction novel by Piers Anthony
entitled The Shame of Man (I've highlighted the key strings in caps).=20
This passage seems to be referring to a supposed stage in the evolution of
the human mind.
"There was a need to share what went beyond vocabulary, however
sophisticated the language might be. This may have been where the arts
came in. The sophisticated symbolism of language was only one ability of
the new mind; it could appreciate the symbolism of a sculpture, or a
drawing, or a dance, or music. Music, perhaps more than any other art,
appealed directly to THE AWARE MIND, and stirred special emotions in it.
When ONE AWARE PERSON sang, and others listened, all of them knew that the
others were experiencing similar awareness. They were sharing the feelings
of their own kind. And so self-consciousness may have led to complex
language and all of the arts, including perhaps the art of love. Those of
the new mind were not only able to communicate in ways others literally
could not dream of, they were able to share feelings others lacked."
I think if I had been reading this passage before doing this
investigation, I would not have blinked at this usage. What I have
discovered gives me some pause about making generalizations that
characterize certain usages as "bad" until I have seen the context. I can
still tell students, it is not very likely for the string "aware + N" to
occur in English so be very careful that it is contextually appropriate if
you decide to use it.
R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisonburg, VA 22802
[log in to unmask] (540) 432-4051
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:33:34 -0500
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: relative that--a contrary view
--_000_0DDF38BA66ECD847B39F1FD4C801D543128B91C2DAEMAILBACKEND0_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For those of you who won't be driven to despair by another posting on relat=
ive "that" and maybe even have some interest in it, I recommend
Van der Auwera, Johan. 1985. Relative that-a centennial dispute. Journal=
of Linguistics 21:149-179.
It's a thorough and scholarly review of the literature on the subject going=
back to 1885. The author takes the position that relative-that is not com=
pletely pronominal but has several pronominal traits. He critiques argumen=
ts, including some of mine supporting the claim that relative-that is simpl=
y a conjunction. I don't agree with all of his counterarguments, but he ma=
kes an interesting case that those of you who regard relative-that as a pro=
noun will find interesting.
Herb
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--_000_0DDF38BA66ECD847B39F1FD4C801D543128B91C2DAEMAILBACKEND0_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>For those of you who won’t be driven to despair =
by
another posting on relative “that” and maybe even have some int=
erest
in it, I recommend <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Van der Auwera, Johan. 1985. Relative that=
—a centennial
dispute. Journal of Linguistics 21:149-179.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>It’s a thorough and scholarly review of the lite=
rature
on the subject going back to 1885. The author takes the position that
relative-that is not completely pronominal but has several pronominal trait=
s.
He critiques arguments, including some of mine supporting the claim that
relative-that is simply a conjunction. I don’t agree with all o=
f his
counterarguments, but he makes an interesting case that those of you who re=
gard
relative-that as a pronoun will find interesting.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Herb<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--_000_0DDF38BA66ECD847B39F1FD4C801D543128B91C2DAEMAILBACKEND0_--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:55:15 -0500
From: John Crow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2009 ATEG Conference
--0003255762cae71f770463732553
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The registration form is available at the ATEG.org website. The specific
link is
http://ateg.org/conferences/c20/registration.pdf
John
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Wanda Van Goor <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Please post a registration form for the 2009 conference at U of Md.
> Thanks!
>
> In a message dated 2/17/2009 11:06:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am making the following announcement because, ironically enough, Amy is
> unable to post to the listserv.
>
> The annual ATEG Conference is up and ready for presenter proposals and
> conference registration. The theme for this year (July 9 and 10, at the
> College Park campus of the University of Maryland) is YES WE CAN! (TEACH
> GRAMMAR!) The programs are always very interesting and the participants
are
> extraordinarily collegial, so plan to attend if you possibly can.
>
> For more information, visit ATEG.org or, more specifically, go to the
> following link:
>
> http://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> John
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Need a job? Find an employment agency near
you<http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agencies&ncid=emlcntu
syelp00000003>
> .
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--0003255762cae71f770463732553
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The registration form is available at the ATEG.org website. The speci=
fic link is<br><br><a href=3D"http://ateg.org/conferences/c20/registration.=
pdf">http://ateg.org/conferences/c20/registration.pdf</a><br><br>John<br><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Wanda Van Goor <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,=
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style=3D"font-size: 14pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;"><f=
ont size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">
<div><font size=3D"4">Please post a registration form for the 2009 conferen=
ce at U=20
of Md. Thanks!</font></div><div class=3D"Ih2E3d">
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 2/17/2009 11:06:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20
<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]<=
/a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin=
-left: 5px;"><font style=3D"background-color: transparent;" size=3D"2" colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Hi=20
All,<br><br>I am making the following announcement because, ironically en=
ough,=20
Amy is unable to post to the listserv.<br><br>The annual ATEG Conference =
is up=20
and ready for presenter proposals and conference registration. The =
theme=20
for this year (July 9 and 10, at the College Park campus of the Universit=
y of=20
Maryland) is YES WE CAN! (TEACH GRAMMAR!) The programs are always v=
ery=20
interesting and the participants are extraordinarily collegial, so plan t=
o=20
attend if you possibly can.<br><br>For more information, visit ATEG.org o=
r,=20
more specifically, go to the following link:<br><br><a title=3D"http://at=
eg.org/conferences/c20.php" href=3D"http://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://ateg.org/conferences/c20.php</a><br><br>Hope=20
to see you there!<br><br>John<br>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, ple=
ase=20
visit the list's web interface at:=20
<a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join =
or leave the=20
list"=20
<p>Visit ATEG's web site at=20
<a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://ateg.org/</a></p></fo=
nt></blockquote></div></div></font><br><font style=3D"color: black; font-fa=
mily: arial,san-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weigh=
t: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; fo=
nt-stretch: normal;"> <hr style=3D"margin-top: 10px;">
Need a job? <a href=3D"http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=3Demployment=
_agencies&ncid=3Demlcntusyelp00000003" target=3D"_blank">Find an employ=
ment agency near you</a>.</font></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"=
>
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<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
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</p></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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--0003255762cae71f770463732553--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 22:02:39 -0600
From: Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: On the importance of the competence-performance distinction for
language teachers
In the discussion on the theory of language, Bill Spruill (on 2/11)
wrote:
=E2=80=9CIt doesn't do the wider public any good, though, *especially* si=
nce a
majority of the differences between the paradigms has no real
implication for what we need to do in classrooms.=E2=80=9D
I want to demonstrate that an important difference between views on
language makes a very real difference in the disposition we as teachers
need to have in understanding what our students do and how we respond to
what they do. =20
The difference I consider here is whether we need a
competence-performance distinction in our understanding of language or
whether performance is the only way to consider language. In other
words, whether there is a difference between our knowledge about what is
possible in a language (competence) and how that knowledge is used
(performance) or the distinction doesn=E2=80=99t exist at all. In an ear=
lier
post Craig noted:=20
=E2=80=9CFor a formal or structural grammar, you need to theorize ways in=
which
knowledge of the underlying forms can be put to work. In a functional
model, those connections are already there.=E2=80=9D
I claim a teacher must theorize about how knowledge of underlying forms
are put to work by our students. Consider sentence (1) that one of my
non-native speakers (a graduate students whose first language is
Chinese) wrote: =20
1) They are not agree with the Input Hypothesis.=20
(1) is obviously ungrammatical: ARE should be DO. I=E2=80=99m interested=
in
trying to understand why a non-native speaker would write (1) because,
if I can figure out why, my correction may prevent the error in future
writing. =20
I can only speculate on how someone who believes language can be
understood as performance would respond to this sentence. (I hope I
will be corrected on the following if it is not correct.)
From a performance perspective, when to use IS/ARE and DO in making
sentences negative can appear to be confusing. Consider 2 and 3.
2) They do not agree with X.
3) They are not agreeing with X.
So, perhaps if we only know performance, the writer of (1) is confused
about DO or ARE and =E2=80=9Cagree=E2=80=9D just lacks -ing. And, of cou=
rse, such
learners will see sentences like (4).
4) They are not in agreement with X.
So, from a performance perspective, the number of different forms a
learner might encounter with =E2=80=9Cagree=E2=80=9D is so variable, the =
learner has no
clear indication whether ARE or DO is appropriate. Moreover, we as
teachers cannot be sure whether the student should have written
=E2=80=9Cagreeing=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cin agreement.=E2=80=9D=20
On the other hand, if we as teachers understand language to have a
competence-performance distinction, another explanation for (1) is
possible. If the learner=E2=80=99s underlying knowledge about AGREE is t=
hat it
is an adjective and not a verb, then what makes this sentence
ungrammatical is not with ARE (or missing morphology on =E2=80=9Cagree=E2=
=80=9D) but
with what word category the learner has assigned AGREE to. So, because
AGREE for this student is an adjective, ARE is the only form possible.
In fact, that is exactly what the student told me. =20
Craig, in the passage I cited above, is absolutely correct. As a
teacher, I had to theorize on how this writer=E2=80=99s underlying compet=
ence
(agree is an adjective) lead to the ungrammatical sentence.. Such
theorizing, I believe, is a disposition all teachers need to have to
respond to their students=E2=80=99 writing.
I hope this example of a real sentence a real student wrote shows that a
whole lot is at stake in how we understand what it means to know
language.
Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri
(By the way, if we as teachers had done the obvious surface correction
of sentence (1)=E2=80=93 cross-out the ARE and insert DO, we really haven=
=E2=80=99t
provided much help to the student. The student has to figure out why the
ARE was crossed out and DO was inserted. That would require the student
to realize that only verbs require do-support when made negative and BE
is used for adjectives. A student who could arrive at such a conclusby ju=
st crossing out ARE and replacing it with DO probably wouldn=E2=80=99t
write (1) in the first place.)
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------------------------------
End of ATEG Digest - 20 Feb 2009 to 21 Feb 2009 (#2009-41)
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