Phil,

We have been talking about how the traditional grammar has been 
isolated from linguistics as if they were two different language 
fields, when in fact grammar (morphology and syntax) is part of 
linguistics. I am sure you know that the term *word classes* is a 
common term in linguistics. I fail to imagine how the linguists on  
the ATEG forum (you are one of them) would be shocked by the use of 
the term *word classes* instead of *parts of speech,* when it is more 
than obvious that "speech" refers to *utterances,* only, and not to 
the whole thing (utterances and written words). 

Eduard 


On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Phil Bralich wrote...

>Sorry, guys.   Word classes is just odd.  Parts of Speech is the 
term and will remain so.  You're just not dealing with a full deck 
here.  Quirk and Greenbaum alone could conserve the term for a few 
centuries.  You add to that Jespersen, Saussure and on and on and the 
argument is over.  ATEG will be ignored or at best, patronized or 
thought of as upstarts, but nothing will come of it.  
>
>Phil Bralich
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Jul 27, 2006 10:14 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Grammar Terms Definitions
>>
>>Phil,
>>   I don't think for a moment that using "word classes" would imply
>>anything about 2,000 plus years of scholarship. I doubt that anyone
>>would find it remarkable at all. It's a set of classifications for
>>words.
>>   I think you're all alone on this argument. I appreciate your 
passion,
>>but I think the consensus is on the other side.
>>   If a publisher balks on an issue like this, then they are a 
foolish
>>publisher.
>>
>>Craig
>>    >
>>
>>
>>It simply does not restrict the definition to utterances.  It never 
has;
>>> it never will.  Your saying so does not change the 2000 years of
>>> experience of using it for oral and written speech.  If anyone 
felt that
>>> they would either have written a separate set for the "parts of 
writing"
>>> or changed the name themselves.  No one will agree with you on 
this.  All
>>> writing comes from speech.  Part of speech is just fine.  There 
is nothing
>>> wrong with "Word class"; it is simply not required.  Any 
improvement it
>>> offers is minimal, though mostly there is none.  Changing it 
would give
>>> the impression that for 2000+ years scholars were too foolish to 
notice
>>> that the term couldn't be used for writing.  They would have if 
there were
>>> a problem.  It is nothing other than narcissism that could make 
anyone
>>> think you should replace a 2000 year old term with the new one on 
such
>>> skewed logic.
>>>
>>> If you were to convince the ATEG group to use word class instead 
of part
>>> of speech you are likely to damage the effectiveness of the 
effort.
>>> Certainly, publishers would not stop using the term "parts of 
speech".
>>>
>>> Phil Bralich
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would appreciate if you explained why viewing *parts of speech* 
as
>>>>innacurate (because it restricts the definition to utterances)and
>>>>considering the term *word classes* (because this is just what
>>>>grammars do - classsify words into morphological classes) would be
>>>>consideredd *poor thinking.* What evidence supports your position?
>>>>
>>>>Eduard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 26 Jul 2006, Phil Bralich wrote...
>>>>
>>>>>Highly doubtful.  Parts of Speech as the term for the categories 
of
>>>>isoated=
>>>>> words is just not a problem.   Viewing it as inaccurate is just
>>>>poor think=
>>>>>ing and will be viewed as such by others.  If you write the
>>>>arguments given=
>>>>> early you will only mark the group as one that is dominated by 
poor
>>>>thinki=
>>>>>ng.  You will not affect a change. =20
>>>>>
>>>>>Phil Bralich
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
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