Joanna:

Thank you! It is an honor for me to be associated with Ed Vavra and 
Phil Bralich. It is a great privilege for me to be placed in the same 
class with Ed Vavra, the man who began the grammar reform in the NCTE.

It is sad for me to see that Ed Vavra is accused "with deliberately 
misinterpret[ing] and belittl[ing] the beliefs, aims, and aspirations 
of the people in ATEG," when he is the one who started what you claim 
he wants to destroy.


Eduard 




On Fri, 28 Jul 2006, William C Spruiell wrote...

>I'm forwarding this from Johanna Rubba - her school's firewall is on 
the
>"kill anything that moves" setting. -- Bill Spruiell
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Johanna Rubba [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
>Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 8:06 PM
>To: Spruiell, William C
>Cc: Johanna Rubba
>Subject: Re: Paul's Solution to Re: Grammar Terms Definitions
>
>Bill,
>
>I'm picking on you to ask to forward this, so as to spread the 
burden=20
>I'm imposing on my fellow posters. I hope you don't mind. It states 
my=20
>views, not yours.
>
>Phil Bralich is obviously of the same school as Ed Vavra and, in 
many=20
>of his past posts, Eduard Hanganu -- their main agenda seems to be 
to=20
>deliberately misinterpret and belittle the beliefs, aims, and=20
>aspirations of the people in ATEG (not all of its members, I might 
say)=20
>who are engaged in a very long-term, and very, very young program 
to=20
>revise the way grammar is taught as part of language arts education 
in=20
>the USA. Ed keeps hammering away at the terminology issue, ignoring 
the=20
>information that Herb has been asked to lead a group in settling on 
a=20
>set of terms for the proposed revision. He also ignores the 
efforts=20
>that many of use are directing towards improving method -- Amy 
Benajmin=20
>and Rebecca Wheeler in the lower and middle grades, Bill Spriuell 
and=20
>Paul Doniger in high school (hope I got that right) and numbers of 
us=20
>at the college level, training teachers. Eduard started out making 
all=20
>kinds of claims based on his credentials in linguistics, only to 
back=20
>off from them as strong evidence was produced that countered them 
(at=20
>least he shows some willingness to admit that he might be wrong 
about=20
>some things). Phil simply says we're wrong, and does not respond at 
all=20
>to explanations of our position, valid criticisms of his positions, 
and=20
>the FACTS I have set out about the dooming of whole populations of=20
>schoolchildren despite some very promising changes in method that 
we=20
>should be cultivating and exploring. (In general, I am 
disappointed=20
>that more people have not responded on this very crucial issue. 
See=20
>below.)
>
>Phil, in an extremely brief response to my messages, which make=20
>substantive comments about several of his claims, fails to 
distinguish=20
>between the ubiquity of a term and how many people really understand 
it=20
>or have very habituated beliefs about it. He goes on to make=20
>predictions about how people in general will respond to a change 
in=20
>terminology. I can just as well predict that "word class" will be 
a=20
>welcome change. People dislike grammar partly because of its 
obscure=20
>terminology. Why "perfect"? Its grammatical meaning has nothing to 
do=20
>with the way the word is used in everyday English. Yes, we will have 
a=20
>tough road with terminology, but it is because of the ignorance of 
the=20
>powers that be, not their knowledge.
>
>Who can respect someone who refuses to respond to a direct request 
for=20
>a response? Who can respect someone who just flames people with=20
>characterizations like "delusional", "not playing with a full 
deck",=20
>and equates the quest for a solid grammar curriculum with more-
accurate=20
>terminology to a "need for entertainment", a fourth-grader 
complaining=20
>about homework, or the so-called political correctness movement 
(with=20
>his comment about a possible change in math terminology). His 
arguments=20
>are also internally inconsistent, since, on the one hand, he keeps=20
>saying all this grammar is no big deal, while, on the other, 
saying=20
>that having more than one term for something will hinder the=20
>enterprise. He claims at first that eight parts of speech are 
fine,=20
>then decides Quirk and Greenbaum's ten (or whatever) are fine.
>
>I know that the level of rhetoric on many supposedly science-
oriented=20
>blogs and listservs is rude and adolescent. That kind of rhetoric 
has=20
>not gone over well on this list in the past. I challenge people on 
the=20
>facts -- thousands of children ARE failing in school. Our workforce 
IS=20
>ever more incompetent. Can't we get past ego?
>
>As to the "see below": I was cruising CA's Dept. of Ed. website 
this=20
>morning, looking at 2004-05 scores on both our new high school 
exit=20
>exam (which passes a student with 9th-grade competence) as well as=20
>scores on the standardized tests for grades 1-11. The scores for=20
>African Americans were abysmal. In all subjects, the great 
majority=20
>were at "basic" or below, with about a third at basic. The numbers 
of=20
>"proficient" students (one level above basic) were horrible --=20
>percentages in the single digits, teens, and twenties in all 
subjects.=20
>The highest figure I saw was 34% proficient in 9th-grade geometry. 
In=20
>language arts, the majority of scores were still in the basic and 
lower=20
>levels, with percentages in the teens and twenties at 
the "proficient"=20
>level of language arts. Scores for whites are in the 60-85% range.=20
>Black kids are not failing school. SCHOOLS ARE FAILING THE KIDS.
>
>Doesn't anybody care?
>
>Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
>Linguistics Minor Advisor
>English Department
>California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
>E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>Tel.: 805.756.2184
>Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596
>Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374
>URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
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>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

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