My bad.  I've become accustomed to seeing "for example" used in such
a limited manner (at work), and thinking in terms originally of "such
as," I wasn't considering the full range of the more mobile "for
example."

How would you construe phrases beginning with "such as"?  Does it
make sense to you to consider them reduced adjectival clauses, or
would you take some other approach?


Odile



At 10:51 AM -0700 8/3/04, Karl Hagen wrote:
>It doesn't have to introduce things that restate the sentence to be a
>sentence-level modifier. Although "for example" and "such as" can be
>used for similar functions, their structure is different.
>
>"For example" is a discrete constituent. Unlike "such as" It does not
>contain the phrase (or clause) that it introduces, and for that reason
>requires a comma. Notice also that you can shift around the position of
>"for example" in a way that you cannot do with "such as"
>
>  for example, his hangover
>  his hangover, for example
>  such as his hangover
>  *his hangover such as
>
>I would treat "for example" as equivalent to other discourse adverbials
>like "in conclusion," "however," etc.
>
>Karl Hagen
>Department of English
>Mount St. Mary's College
>
>Odile Sullivan-Tarazi wrote:
>
>>But doesn't "for example" generally -- or at least, as often --
>>introduce examples of some one thing (noun or action or whatever) in
>>the sentence, rather than examples that restate the entire sentence?
>>
>>In those cases, the examples must also be subsumed into the overall
>>structure of the sentence in some way.  The nearest I could get was
>>to consider them elements in apposition.  Bruce has suggested that
>>our "for example, x, y, and z" is an abbreviated version of a full
>>clause: (which are), for example, x, y, and z.
>>
>>I'll leave it to him to explicate more thoroughly.  I like this
>>approach, though.  Makes sense to me.
>>
>>
>>Odile
>>
>>
>>
>>At 9:53 AM -0700 8/3/04, Kathleen M. Ward wrote:
>>
>>>I am not sure about this, because I don't use R-K diagrams often, but
>>>would not "For example" usually a sentence-level modifier?  And isn't
>>>an inability to distinguish sentence-level modifiers a real
>>>limitation of the R-K system?
>>>
>>>KMW
>>>
>>>>I considered that, but it just shifted the question for me.  How
>>>>would you represent "for example" and the examples that follow it on
>>>>a Reed-Kellog diagram?  I wasn't sure how to set it up and where to
>>>>attach it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Odile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 4:52 PM -0500 8/2/04, Kurt Steinbach wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Such as" is often used to replace the phrase, "For example, " in
>>>>>sentences and clauses.
>>>>>
>>>>>Odile Sullivan-Tarazi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I will probably kick myself in the morning, but somehow tonight I can
>>>>>>not seem to think.  How does the phrase "such as," used to introduce
>>>>>>a list of examples, function in the sentence?  How would it be
>>>>>>diagrammed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If anyone could enlighten me, I'd be ever so grateful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Odile
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>

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