Ed,
    My students seem to like grammar when I teach it, but I suspect you
and I have a wacky passion that they find amusing, even mildly or not
so mildly contagious.
   You are enormously consistent in the kinds of choices you make. I find
your position very clear and thoughtful. I agree; the ellipsis is
potentially there all the time, and this is a good occassion to bring
it into play. It makes sense to try to extend the rule. My own choice
would be to foreground the functional use of "for", which is also
consistent with other choices.

Craig >


Craig,
>     Isn't there a difference between using ellipsis to bring a
> construction into the rules, as Phil so nicely did, and adding ellipsed
> constructions for no reason? Once again my problem here is that
> grammarians love to explore exceptions to the norm. As a result, they
> end up presenting students, who do not yet understand the norms, with a
> bewildering array of exceptions. The result is that most students, and
> many teachers, hate grammar.
> Ed
>
>>>> [log in to unmask] 2/28/2006 9:29:18 AM >>>
>
> Ed,
>    I wouldn't disagree with your decision at all.  It's hard sometimes
> to
> know how complex an answer to give when questions come up in class.
> Simply saying "this is how I understand it" is a reasonable call.
>     In a sense, pretty much all adjectives and adverbs could be subject
> to
> this kind of ellipsis.  We can overdo it.  (He jumped as quickly as he
> could.  He made the circle as round as he could.  You could assume
> "quickly in speed" or "round in shape".)  "As long as he could" is
> clearly adverbial without the "for".  If we turn it into a noun phrase
> with "for" in front by positing an implied noun, you are taking an
> unusual step to salvage the purity of a rule, the kind of structure
> that combines with a preposition. It may be just as simple and elegant
> to call it an exception. At any rate, "for" adds duration or makes
> duration explicit. Herb's point, that it adds aspect (duration) to the
> verb phrase, seems reasonable as well, especially because it directs
> attention to the kind of choice a writer might make for clarity.    >
>     It certainly makes sense not to get too bogged down with students.
>
> There's more than one way to simplify.
>
> Craig
>
>
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