ATEG Archives

June 2008

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:33:28 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (214 lines)
Dick,
   I think E.B. White goes to some pains to present his work as "advice"
and not at all the pronouncements of an authority. Strunk was a
composition teacher in early twentieth century who had the good luck to
have White as a student.
   "A Writer's Reference" (Diana Hacker)doesn't seem to cover it, though I
only have the 3rd edition at home. I'll check the more recent tomorrow,
when I'll be at my office.
   Andrea Lunsford (The Everyday Writer, 2nd edition) has this to say:

The phrases as well as, along with, in addition to, together with>
    Be careful when you use these and other similar phrases. They do not
make a singular subject plural.

A passenger, as well as the driver, *were/was injured in the accident. (In
her version, the "were" is struck through and relaced by "was").

She goes on to say "Though this sentence has a grammatically singular
subject, it suggests the idea of a plural subject. The sentence makes
better sense with a compound subject. "The driver and a passenger were
injured in the accident.""

She seems to recognize the problem and counsel avoiding the sort of mixed
message that "as well as" can convey.

Are there instances where "as well as" clearly compounds? I think so, but
I would feel more comfortable with a few clear examples from respected
writers.

Craig




Michael,
>
>
>
> You are saying that you disagree with Strunk and White (quoted by Carol
> below). Are there equivalent authorities you can cite? I am not saying
> "authorities" are ipso facto right (for example, you can still find
> textbooks that pronounce it ungrammatical to end a sentence with a
> preposition), but in matters like this there is often an agreed upon
> consensus.
>
>
>
> Dick
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Keith Pen
> Ultimate Rare Books
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:30 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
>
>
> Dick et al
>
>
>
> Ask yourself why "his speech as well as his manners is objectionable"
> doesn't sound right.  In that sentence I suspect that "as well as his
> manners" serves as a delayed, emphatic additional subject--something
> akin to: also especially his manners!--and is therefore and thereby
> plural.  Remember, if the subject is plural, the verb should be as well.
> Many subjects succeeded by "as well as" are intended indeed to be
> singular.  The subject/example you provided, in most contexts,
> emphatically is NOT.  Grammar, like language and concepts, is contextual
> and objective.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
> 	-------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard"
> <[log in to unmask]>: --------------
>
> 	Thanks, Carol. That is most helpful. Is it is. I knew that
> intellectually but wish it sounded right too. For example, change
> "manner" to "manners" in the Strunk and White example and it doesn't
> seem as clear cut: "His speech as well as his manners is objectionable."
>
>
>
> 	Dick Veit
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> 	From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison
> 	Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 4:11 PM
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
>
>
> According to Strunk and White in The Elements of Style, "[a] singular
> subject remains singular even if other nouns are connected to it by
> with, as well as, in addition to, except, together with, and no less
> than (21). So I believe that your last example would take the verb "is".
> Strunk and White give the following example: "His speech as well as his
> manner is objectionable" (21).
>
> I'm not sure if the comma between "society at large" and "as well as"
> changes that in your sentence though.
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 6/15/08, Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> 	From: Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]>
> 	Subject: a subject-verb-agreement question
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 3:32 PM
>
> 	A little help, please, with subject/verb agreement in a
> sentence. These I have no trouble with:
>
>
>
> 	*	Good policy will come when society at large is educated
> about HPV.
> 	*	Good policy will come when at-risk individuals are
> educated about HPV.
> 	*	Good policy will come when society at large and at-risk
> individuals are educated about HPV.
>
>
>
> 	And pretty sure about this:
>
>
>
> 	*	Good policy will come when society at large (not just
> at-risk individuals) is educated about HPV.
>
>
>
> 	But what about this one?
>
>
>
> 	*	Good policy will come when society at large, as well as
> at-risk individuals, is/are educated about HPV.
>
>
>
> 	Do the commas make the second phrase an aside so that the verb
> should agree with "society" only (i.e., "is")? Or do we treat "as well
> as" as equivalent to "and," making "are" the right choice? I seek your
> informed guidance on the matter. Any specific reference to authority is
> especially welcome.
>
>
>
> 	Dick
>
> 	________________________________
>
> 	Richard Veit
> 	Department of English
> 	University of North Carolina Wilmington
>
>
>
> 	To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"
>
> 	Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
> 	To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"
>
> 	Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> 	To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"
>
> 	Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

ATOM RSS1 RSS2