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Subject:
From:
Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:13:04 -0400
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John,
   I think all sentences straddle the boundary between syntax and
semantics, but your analysis seems on target. "But" generally signals a
shift in line of thought (change from what is expected), and it's very
important to pin that shift down and do so without the reader having to
work for it.  The semi-colon does just that, or it least makes it less
difficult. It's a good example of a sentence that should require
consulting with the writer as to what it meant. I THINK, but am not
sure, that she wants to say that all people are sinful, but some come
to church knowing they are sinful. If revising means fine-tuning the
meaning (as it always should), then we have to bring the writer back in
for consulation. (I admit it's not often possible.)
   To me, there's an awkwardness in the shift from singular to plural.
("Type of people is treated as singular, but "these people" (same
group) are treated as plural. The reader has to adjust to that, and
it's an unnecessary distraction.) Why call them "sinful people" to
start with when the writer believes all of us are sinful?  How about
"people who realize they are sinful." That way she wouldn't have to
amend the term as she goes.
    To get back to the opening question, I think the "descriptive rules"
are often the ones most directly involved in the construction of
coherence and meaning.  When we focus on the "prescriptive," we are
relegating grammar to shallow surface concerns. "Descriptive" makes it
sound like attention to this aspect of language is surface oriented,
when, in fact, it can be very substantial, very deep. As with John's
fine example, we can use an attention to the words and arrangement of
words to help a student REVISE (and not simply correct) a text.     >
   John, maybe what you meant to say is that this is an example for which
the prescriptive rules actually seem functional.  They certainly are
from time to time, though that doesn't make them primarily a functional
system.

Craig

 I have another student-generated sentence that's causing me problems.  Her
> essay categorizes types of people that she sees in church.  The sentence
> in
> quesiton is the topic sentence for one of her categories.  I know what is
> needed, but I'm not sure why:
>
> Another type of people you can regularly meet in churches is sinful
> people,*
> * not that we are all walking angels, but these people are the ones who
> sin
> and realize they do.
>
> I know that either a period or a semi-colon is needed after "sinful
> people."  However, when I examine the structure of the sentence, I see two
> independent clauses joined by "but."  I see a semantic problem:  the
> contrast inherent in "but" is not between the two independent clauses, but
> is between the final two clauses.  Does this sentence straddle the
> boundary
> between syntax and semantics?  Or can the problem be described from a
> purely
> grammatical perspective?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
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