I'm a native Hoosier and everyone I know from Indiana says "berry" for bury;
the only people I've known to say "burry" are from Eastern Pennsylvania.
Since I never use "ornery," that one doesn't matter to me; I've heard both
versions, plus "AHN-ry."
Next question: When did a hyphen turn into a dash--as in the prerecorded
telephone message saying, "See our website at TIAA(dash)CREF"? And speaking
of dashes, why is it that people are leaving spaces between the dashes and
the words on each side of them? I don't see any space between word and
comma, word and period, word and quotation mark, etc.
Continuing to wonder.
Helene
>From: "Stahlke, Herbert F.W." <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Question: Language change and malapropism
>Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:05:29 -0500
>
>I suspect that "burry" is a spelling pronunciation. The "ornery/ahnery"
>difference corresponds, I think, to the "cot/caught" merger. Those who
>pronounce it "ahnery" have merged the vowels.
>
>Herb
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Cynthia
>Baird
>Sent: Thu 3/16/2006 7:51 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Question: Language change and malapropism
>
>Interesting discussion, especially about vowel shifts in our own century.
>Gives me the chance to ask a question that has always bothered me about the
>pronunciation of "bury." I have heard northern Midwesterners (in my
>experience, from northern Illinois) pronounce "bury" like "burry" as
>opposed to "berry" that I grew up w/in southern Ohio. Also, what about
>"ornery." In southern Ohio, we pronounce the word "or-nery," but others
>pronounce it "ah-nery." While these may seem like idle conversations about
>pronunciation variants, I think the discussion has more merit than what
>appears, espcially when changes in pronunciation due to shifts or other
>factors more permanently alter the words of our language. And I am most
>curious as to where those shifts are originating and how I can instruct my
>students. In other words, do I correct or acquiese?
>
> thanks!
>
>"Paul E. Doniger" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Helene,
>
> I was under the impression that Missour-ah was how the natives of
>Missouri pronounced their state; correct me if I'm wrong. There's a big
>difference in how we pronounce 'Oregon' here in New England as opposed to
>the "correct" native Oregonian pronunciation.
>
> Also, in my part of New England (Connecticut), nobody says "Paak thuh
>Kaah;" that's a Bostonian dialect. We do have some of our own unusual
>speech patterns, however. for example, in my area, it's hard to hear the
>difference among the words, merry, marry, and Mary (the all sound like
>merry). I don't think any of these are "vowel shift" issues in the same
>sense as say The Great Vowel shift, but I really don't know for sure.
>
> Paul D.
>
>helene hoover <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> He! rb: Is this NCVS responsible for otherwise standard speakers of
>English
>saying "Missour-ah" for "Missouri"? Along the same lines, how did New
>England get to "Pack the kaa, Mack" for "Park the car, Mark"? Just curious.
>Helene
>
>
>
> >From: "Stahlke, Herbert F.W."
> >Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> >
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Question: Language change and malapropism
> >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:53:45 -0500
> >
> >I wonder of the flush/flesh confusion might not be a feature of the
> >Northern Cities Vowel Shift. I hadn't heard of the NCVS going all the way
> >to the west coast, but it has gotten at least as far as Minneapolis and
>St.
> >Louis. If you're not familiar with this sound change, it's a change that
> >has taken place over the past century in the major cities around the
> >southern shores of the Great Lakes, extending from about Syracuse west
> >through Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago, and
>Milwaukee.
> >From those centers, it has spread out to smaller cities so that it's
>found
> >now in Fort Wayne and Indianapolis as well as in Lansing and Traverse
>City.
> > In this change, which effects quite a number of vowel sounds, the vowel
> >/ae/, as in "cat" raises to /E/ ("pet"/) and even gets as high as /i/
> >("seat"), so that the name "Anne" sounds like "Ian". In the process, /E/
> >gets moved back to /A/, as in "cut", so that "bed" sounds like "bud".
>This
> >set of shifts would, then, account for "flesh" sounding like "flush", but
> >then I don't know if there's any other sign of NCVS hitting Seattle, or
>if,
> >maybe, this speaker came from the Great Lakes states.
> >
> >
> >
> >Herb
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Assembly for the Teaching of En! glish Grammar
> >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wollin, Edith
> >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:14 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Question: Language change and malapropism
> >
> >
> >
> >I've been hearing the same problem with another phrase here in Seattle:
> >"This needs to be flushed out." I'm not even sure if they are really
>saying
> >"fleshed" and it just doesn't sound that way to me or if they know they
>are
> >saying "flushed" and the meaning of "flesh out" has stuck to the whole
> >phrase for them and they don't notice that they are saying almost the
> >opposite of what they mean.
> >
> >
> >
> >This is how we entertain ourselves in meetings!
> >
> >Edith Wollin
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda DiDesidero
> >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:33 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Question: Language change and malapropism
> >
> >Thanks for responding, Herb.
> >
> >Yes, the students pronounce blase /blah- ze/. I have heard it is from a
> >rap song that has that refrain, but I'm afraid that I'm not that familiar
> >with rap music.
> >
> >
> >
> >What bothers me about the "chock it up to experience" example is that the
> >student has no idea what 'chock/chalk' means--the phrase has become a
> >linguistic whole for this student. She has no clue that she is writing
> >about metaphorically making a chalk mark or tally. So this might be
> >isolated BUT the /blah--ze/ is not. I'm actually wondering if this could
> >be thought of as onomatopeia.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Linda
> >
> >PS I know what you mean about cot/caught and hock/hawk--we lived! in
>Chicago
> >for several years, but now we are back East where all my NE Philly
> >relatives say things like "Yeeah, lez go howme"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Stahlke, Herbert F.W.
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:26:43 -0500
> >Subject: Re: Question: Language change and malapropism
> >
> >Interesting questions. Do they pronounce "blasé" with two syllables or as
> >if it has a silent e? The chock/chalk confusion may arise from a sound
> >change, the a/aw merger that is found in a band about 100 miles north to
> >south from about Pittsburg west to the Mississippi and then everywhere
>west
> >of the Mississippi north of a line from about St. Louis to El Paso. These
> >speakers pronounce "cot" and "caught" with the same vowels, which,
> >depending on area, may be either both /a/ or both /aw/. There was until
> >recently a store in here in Muncie called "The Muncie Hawk Shop". At
>first
> >I thought it was a similar confusion of "hawk" and "hock" until I spoke
>to
> >the owner and learned that it was intentional. Because he had an earlier
> >felony conviction he could not be bonded and therefore could not get a
> >pawnbroker's license, so instead he opened a buy-sell shop. By spelling
> >the word "hawk", which this area pronounces the same as "hock", he was
>able
> >both to be within the law and to given the impression of functioning as a
> >"hock shop".
> >
> >
> >
> >Another widely used form of a different sort is "hone in on" for "home in
> >on". The Merriam Webster Dictionary of English Usage dates this usage to
> >1978, citing it in a primary campaign speech by George H. W. Bush. I have
> >since found it in such places as the New York Times Magazine. I still
> >reject it in student writing, which is, I! fear, every bit as pedantic
>and
> >tendentious as rejecting "most unique".
> >
> >
> >
> >Herb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda DiDesidero
> >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:44 AM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Question: Language change and malapropism
> >
> >
> >
> >The discussion of the broadening of the meaning of 'unique' is
>interesting,
> >but I see a different problem that I might call widespread malapropism.
> >
> >
> >
> >My students often create terms or use them as malapropisms--and these may
> >be derived from rap music or these may have their roots in Microsoft
>Word's
> >spell-checker. Does anyone else know anything more about this?
> >
> >
> >
> >One frequently occurring e! xample is the word 'blase' to mean
>"bla-bla-bla"
> >or 'yadayadayada". My students will actually say: "blase blase blase"
> >thinking that it is equivalent to these other terms. So when this phrase
> >enters widespread use, can we say that the meaning of 'blase' has
>altered?
> >(even though most students who use it in this context do not know that
>they
> >have altered a meaning; they think they have learned a new word.)
> >
> >
> >
> >The other phenomenon has to do with what we might call homonyms, such as:
> >
> >
> >
> >'chock it up to experience'
> >
> >"she was a pre-madonna"
> >
> >
> >
> >While these examples are clearly homonyms--and you think that the person
> >had heard the phrase and has just spelled it incorrectly, perhaps with
>the
> >aid of a spell-checker--they really do express concepts that are
> >fundamentally different from the ones they mimic.
> >
> >
> >
> >Chalking it up to experience is different than chocking it up (or
>chucking
> >it up) to experience.
> >
> >
> >
> >A prima donna is a different concept than a pre-Madonna, even though they
> >both involve females.
> >
> >
> >
> >Any thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> >Linda DiDesidero
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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