A word about British-English use of 'like'.  Over here it has now become
almost universal in everyday (and BBC) speech to use 'like' as a
subordinating conjunction instead of 'as' in abverbial clauses of
comparison:

He responded like his brother did.
They were slow off the mark like they had been before.


Bill's 'pretty darn truish' comment strikes me as on target.  By my own
argument about the origin of language,

(on the web -- see http://www.anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap1401/  )

the updating of another by means of a sentence requires initially a mutual
taking-up of the attitude of a proposed (though unconfirmed) basic agreement
on a hypothetically-'common' referent.  Even for enemies there has to be
this performance of an assumption of trust in 'the' referent.  A common
example is that the frequent repetition of ŒYou know¹ is the course of a
speech, as if to say 'You already agree with what I am going to say.'  There
is a kind of subtext:  'You have not expressed this agreement, but it is one
that, if you examined your own thoughts, you would see that you have
accepted in the past.'  What is really shows, of course, is the speaker¹s
inner uncertainty about the possible agreement of his audience or about his
or her place in the group.

It is very common in peer-group- and gang-talk for this very reason, also
betraying a more general uneasiness about fitting into the world.  That Tony
Blair as our prime minister was much given to using this tag is a sign, not
of cheerful camaraderie, but of suspicion of the audience.  ŒBasically¹ is
another tag that has become common for the same reason, although how it
became so is puzzling;  it implies that the foundation of Speaker¹s and
Hearer¹s attitudes are identical, thus beyond hostility.  One can add the
tag ŒSee¹, as in ŒThe boat set off, see¹:  if this is expressed in the tone
of a command, it enforces the acceptance of a transformation of reference
which it at least acknowledges the possibility;  if this has the tone of a
question, it brings the dual nature of dialogue into the open, and is thus a
better habit of speech.  The same may be said of Œlike¹, as in ŒWe was goin¹
out o¹ the pub, like, and there was this chav, like, waitin¹ outside in the
rain.¹  The implication is that a circumstance like this one is familiar to
the Hearer, as if it fell without question from either Speaker or Hearer
into a classification already settled between them.

Edmond


Dr. Edmond Wright
3 Boathouse Court
Trafalgar Road
Cambridge
CB4 1DU
England

Email: [log in to unmask]
Website: http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/elw33/
Phone [00 44] (0)1223 350256






> It's, like, a hedging or distancing marker. The speaker isn't, like,
> totally asserting that the proposition is true, but rather that it, like,
> seems pretty darn truish. S/he isn't, like, imposing his/her reality onto
> yours; s/he's just sayin'.
> 
> --- Bill Spruiell
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/23/11 3:39 PM, "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Craig and Others,
>> 
>> Thanks for the info.
>> 
>> "Like" now is being used as a quotative: He's like (said) "Who are you?"
>> I think it replaced "go."
>> 
>> I haven't figured out some of its other uses: "He's like mad at me."
>> 
>> Any thoughts on that?
>> 
>> Marshall
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:45 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Like/as
>> 
>> Craig:
>> 
>> Was S&W really allowing single nouns after 'like', but not any multiword
>> phrases? Or were they adopting the use of 'phrase' to refer only to PPs,
>> VPs, etc.? If the former, that would be bizarrely wrong, but S&W are
>> bizarrely wrong just often enough to make that reading plausible.
>> 
>> --- Bill Spruiell
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, "Hancock, Craig G"
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> 
>> Marshall,
>>    I am old enough to have been schooled in the old rules and to
>> remember the controversy over the Winston ad.
>>    I have an original edition elements of Style ( 1959) which lays it
>> out this way: "Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and
>> clauses the equivalent word is as. " You would say "As in the old days"
>> rather than "like in the old days" and "as a cigarette should" rather
>> than "like a cigarette should."
>>    S & W also describes the controversy and comes down on the side of
>> the old rule. In essence, they are saying being current or in current
>> usage doesn't mean it's right. "If every word or device that achieved
>> currency were immediately authenticated, simply on the grounds of
>> popularity, the language would be as chaotic as a ball game with no foul
>> lines." This rather strange (but telling) analogy is intact in my 1972
>> edition.
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall
>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:04 PM
>> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Like/as
>> 
>> Does anybody still use "like" only as a verb (I like lemonade) or as a
>> preposition (She looks like him), but not as a conjunction (You look like
>> you could use a rest vs. You look as though you could use a rest)?
>> 
>> "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. It may be bad grammar, but
>> it's great taste," a cigarette slogan out of the late 50's .
>> 
>> Marshall
>> 
>> 
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> On Behalf Of Dick Veit
>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:10 PM
>> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: Like/as
>> 
>> Unlike Bruce, I have absolutely no problem with "like" as a preposition,
>> orally or in writing.
>> 
>> Bruce, if you object to "like," do you also object to "unlike," as in my
>> opening sentence?
>> 
>> Dick
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Despain
>> <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> wrote:
>> John,
>> You'll have to figure out the collective part, but I have my own opinion.
>> For me the sentences belongs in a written work and the preferred phrase
>> is introduced with "as with."  The preposition "like" has taken on a
>> distinct colloquial flavor, especially in some young people's dialects,
>> where is usually serves as a sentence modifier.  I would avoid it in
>> written work.
>> Bruce
>> 
>> --- <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> From: John Chorazy
>> <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:jo
>> [log in to unmask]>>
>> To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Like/as
>> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:10 -0500
>> Good afternoon to all.  I'd appreciate your collective comments on the
>> following:
>> 
>> "As with (or) Like some other great works, the enduring horror tale
>> Frankenstein was first published anonymously; its author, Mary Shelly,
>> wrote the novel when she was just nineteen years old."
>> 
>> As or like here, and why?
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> John Chorazy
>> English III Honors and Academic
>> Pequannock Township High School
>> 973.616.6000
>> 
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