I agree with Bill Spruiell here--the complement (that) clause is an  
example of the mandative subjunctive.  It's surprising how rarely I  
get to use the term "mandative subjunctive" in ordinary conversation.

Some kinds of subjunctive (the contrary-to-fact subjunctives) are  
marked for tense


If I were you, I'd get that tax form in the mail tomorrow. (present)
versus
If I had been you, I would have put that tax form in the mail in time.

but I think that the mandative subjunctive lost any trace of an  
inflected past tense quite some time ago.

Last year, we recommended that you put your tax form in the mail in  
March.


On Apr 9, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Spruiell, William C wrote:

> I'd treat that as a subjunctive -- there's the "If I were president"
> type, and the "I suggested she be hired" type, and this looks like a
> version of the latter, albeit in a nominal that-clause. That's  
> actually
> dodging your question a bit, though. For the first type of  
> subjunctive,
> one can argue for finiteness on the basis of the fact that the
> subjunctive form can occur before the verb, and that kind of  
> "inversion"
> is characteristic of finite forms (but auxiliaries, in non-subjunctive
> examples). Instead of "If I were president..." one can opt for the
> hyperformal "Were I president..." variant.
>
> I can't think of anything similar one can do with the suggest-type
> subjunctive that would prove it's finite, unless you're willing to
> accept the claim that its presence in a nominal that-clause is
> sufficient proof of finiteness. That feels a bit circular, somehow  
> -- it
> rests on the assumption that a non-finite that-clause is impossible,
> when someone could simply argue that this is an example of just such a
> thing.
>
> Bill Spruiell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Castilleja, Janet
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Odd sentence
>
> Hi
>
> What do you folks make of this sentence?  Is the clause that begins
> 'that the Greek colonies..." finite or non-finite?  I think it is
> non-finite, but I'm wavering a little.
>
>
> When they reached the coast of Asia   Minor, they insisted that the
> Greek colonies of Lydia recognize the Persian Kings as their over-  
> Lords
> and pay them a stipulated tax.
>
> Thanks
>
> Janet Castilleja
> Heritage University
>
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