The other term you may encounter for the "to have X" version is the
"perfect infinitive." I don't think the terms are used much in modern
school grammars, but used to be quite common -- they're part of the
longstanding tradition of pretending that English is really Latin. Using
"past infinitive" and "present infinitive" was particularly confusing to
students who had learned that infinitives are called that because they
don't have tense.
I do bring up those terms in college grammar classes as part of a
discussion of why it's useful to distinguish tense from aspect (and
hence I'd prefer "perfect infinitive" if I had to use a specific label).
-- Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Castilleja, Janet
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 3:35 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Question
Hello
What do you (you guys? you all?) think about this? I am looking at a
book, Side by Side: Spanish and English Grammar. In the following
construction, 'to err is human,' 'to err' is referred to as a present
infinitive, while in 'to have quit is terrible,' 'to have quit ' is
referred to as past infinitive.
This seems very odd to me. I'm have trouble thinking of an infinitive
as having a present or a past but when I googled these terms, it appears
that they are used in Latin and some other romance languages, although
to the best of my knowledge, Spanish doesn't use these terms.
Janet Castilleja
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marshall Myers
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: pair
Stahlke, Herbert F.W. wrote:
>I think, though, that contractions have a special status. We also say,
"There's five kids in the hall." We would never say, "There is five
kids in the hall." "There's" and "where's" have become formulaic.
>
>Herb
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Nancy
Tuten
>Sent: Wed 6/20/2007 7:19 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: pair
>
>True-we certainly do say them. I meant that we wouldn't say them if we
were
>thinking consciously about what we were saying and were trying to be
>"correct" (oh, no-I said the "c" word!).
>
>
>
>I would say "Where're my scissors?" If we said "Where's my scissors?"
>wouldn't we consider the expression colloquial, casual, informal (OK,
>"incorrect"), similar to saying "Where is my dogs?" Heck, I know plenty
of
>people who say "My dogs is in the yard," so "Where's my scissors" (or
>"Where's my dogs?") is a natural progression.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Nancy L. Tuten, PhD
>
>Professor of English
>
>Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program
>
>Columbia College
>
>Columbia, South Carolina
>
>[log in to unmask]
>
>803-786-3706
>
> _____
>
>
>
>--- On Wed 06/20, Paul E. Doniger < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
>From: Paul E. Doniger [mailto: [log in to unmask]]
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:55:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: pair
>
>It seems odd, perhaps, that we might not say "Where is the scissors,"
but we
>often do say "Where's the scissors." And I know I've said, "Where's my
>pants" (but NOT, "Where is my pants?").
>
>Why is that?
>
>Paul D.
>
>P. S. I wouldn't assume that we "never" say these things.
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Nancy Tuten
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 6:02:31 PM
>Subject: Re: pair
>
>But we would never say Where is the scissors? Maybe we would say
Where is
>my pair of scissors? More likely, I would say Where are my scissors?
In
>fact, I say those very words quite often in our house.
>
>Nancy L. Tuten, PhD
>
>Professor of English
>
>Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program
>
>Columbia College
>
>Columbia, South Carolina
>
>[log in to unmask]
>
>803-786-3706
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Martha Kolln
>Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:58 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: pair
>
>
>
>Yes, I would--sometimes. Maybe not always. I think I use both "it" and
>"they" for scissors. I think I would say that "My scissors needs to be
>sharpened." I think "scissors" is on the fence--whereas those other
objects
>are nearly always plural.
>
>
>
>
>
>Martha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 6/20/07 2:39:10 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>Hi Peter,
>I'd say that a pair of scissors is an "it," whereas a pair of twins is
a
>"they." Strangely, a pair of pants is also a "they," as are most of
those
>other bifurcated objects. When I lose my glasses, I never say, "I
wonder
>where it is,"--always "they."
>
>Martha
>
>
>
>Martha,
>
>If you lost your scissors would you wonder where "it" is?
>
>
>
>Peter Adams
>
>
>
>**************************************
>See what's free at http://www.aol.com. To join or leave this LISTSERV
list,
>please visit the list's web interface at:
>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
the
>list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
>at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
leave
>the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this
LISTSERV
>list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
the
>list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
>at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
leave
>the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> _____
>
>No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
>Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com To join or
leave
>this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
the
>list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
Herb,
I wonder, too, about "He don't." I haven't heard a speaker say, "He do
not."
Marshall
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
