Phil,

You are hitting the nail on the head. Bad grammar teaching is very 
much like the Bigfoot story. One or two foot prints (examples) which 
seem to be inflated to scary generalizations. On the other hand THE 
WAR AGAINST GRAMMAR is a reality which cannot be denied.


Eduard 


On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Phil Bralich wrote...

>It isn't so much grammar teaching that gets attacked but "bad" 
grammar teaching.  My personal feeling is that there has likely 
never been particularly much bad grammar teaching just a fair amount 
of resistance and frustration with grammar and grammar teaching that 
got blown way out of proportion.  It is much more of a folk myth 
like big foot or ufos.  The believers in some past age of bad 
grammar and bad grammar teachers are much like those believers in 
bigfoot.  A few anecdotes and a couple of foggy references and 
pictures is enough to set off the alarms and the rhetoric.  But in 
actual fact there is very little sound proof of bad grammar 
practices.  I think it would be of value for someone actually to 
describe the bad practices in the past in some detail and then to 
provide examples from the textbooks with these bad practices.  
>
>I think we would all note that there is very little difference in 
teaching grammar now, 25 years ago or even 50 years ago EXCEPT for 
interesting and provocative anecdotal evidence that there were 
repititive exercises out there.  However, interactivity, more real 
life exercises and the internet have made it more exciting and more 
effective.  
>
>Don't get me wrong.  I am aware there was also some limited 
evidence that suggested that grammar teaching could not be shown to 
be directly of value for writing skills but this is another issue.  
What I want to impress on everyone is the idea that most of the "bad 
grammar" is non-existent.  It's a bigfoot with exciting and 
attractive evidence that never leads to a definitie discovery.  
Someone needs to write an essay that types and lists rather 
exhaustively the bad grammar teaching practices.  (I am thinking 
about it but have three other writing projects ahead of it and I 
don't have much of a library available to me).  My article 
in "English Today_ this month on "The New SAT and Fundamental 
Misunderstandings of English Grammar" lists some of the myths as 
well.  
>
>And of course let's all bow our heads in the direction of Mulroy's 
_The War Against Grammar_ as much of the work to disprove the 
existence of bad grammar is already there.  
>
>Phil Bralich
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: "Eduard C. Hanganu" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Aug 24, 2006 4:27 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Scared of Grammar
>>
>>Hello, all!
>>
>>This is supposed to be a "grammar lovers" forum, right? But why 
are 
>>so many post on this list from people who atack grammar and state 
>>that teaching grammar does not make sense, and makes no difference 
in 
>>writing? The explanation appears to be quite simple: these people 
do 
>>not like grammar, do not understand grammar, and do not want to 
teach 
>>grammar. Their posts indicate that they are fighting as hard as 
they 
>>can to avoid the inevitable.
>>
>>Of course, grammar cannot cause any improvement in student writing 
if 
>>those who "teach" it have no idea what grammar is and how to teach 
it.
>>What role model, or inspiration can a teacher who fumbles around 
and 
>>is in confusion about grammar could be for students? I had a few 
of 
>>such teachers and instructors, and often I had to teach them 
myself 
>>what they needed to know in order to qualify for teaching.
>>
>>If I did not like grammar I would not bother to be on this list. 
What 
>>for? To read again and again about others love and I hate? Part of 
>>the endless harangue in the forum is caused by the situation I 
have 
>>just described, people who love grammar fighting with people who 
hate 
>>it. In the meantime, some people do the quiet and unrewarded work 
of 
>>teaching their students Standard English in spite of the attacks 
on 
>>them and the displeasure of the grammar haters. 
>>
>>Eduard 
>>
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