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There are 7 messages totalling 734 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. modals and tense (7)

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Date:    Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:13:54 -0600
From:    "Bruce D. Despain" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: modals and tense

Peter,

I have an issue with English grammar as it is normally taught.  We seem to 
have a double standard.  We think nothing of teaching that common nouns have

a plural in -s and that this means "more than one."  But then we teach about

the exceptions where the plural has a different form or that the plural has 
a meaning of "one" as in "news" to refer to information.  Then there is the 
difference in meaning between "pennies" and "pence" or between "peas" and 
"pease."  Some of these are not the best examples, but my point here is that

the difference between singular and plural is on two dimensions: 
morphological and semantic, and the two are not always in parallel.  The 
Chinese trying to learn English can probably give better examples (contrast:

"wheat" vs. "oats").

Bruce--
One of the reasons for our problems with teaching issues concerning
plurality is that most educated speakers of a standard English learned usage
from their parents--not from a book; e.g., the distinction in usage between
'some' and 'any' is extraordinarily complex.  After teaching a few ESOL
classes in the late '50s/early '60s, I attempted to find a satisfactory
explanation to distinguish mass nouns--which can be pluralized only by a
counter--and count nouns which take a variety of plural forms but which
primarily are -s and -es [how to decide was well covered when I went to
school].  Because I could not find a suitable text for an ESCL class, I
wrote my doctoral dissertation on Discrepant subcategorization of nouns in
English and Spanish.  I had to develop a matrix to distinguish between count
nouns,mass nouns, and limited count nouns (those that can be pluralized but
not counted).  I did not find one for Spanish either so I developed a matrix
for Spanish also.  I focused on instances in which Spanish and English had
different assignments for similar words.
I have not perused the literature since 1982 when I graduated; someone may
have written a book by now that covers the subject adequately.
Scott

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