First, thank you to all of you who responded to my question about the subjunctive.
Peter's question is excellent and a very important one for me.
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Adams
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Sentence composing/grammar to improve writing
Scott's student wrote
"His face pale, his shirt stained with blood, his pants tattered, his
shoes ripped and dirty, the Roman soldier advanced toward the castle,
stepping over the rotting bodies of the British, every step taking him
closer to the enemy's territory, every step taking him closer to death."
No question about it, a very impressive, sophisticated sentence.
But is this the kind of writing, the style of writing we are teaching
in ENG 101? If not, should it be? Would this style of sentence be
effective in an essay for Psych 101? Would it be effective in
business correspondence? Should it be? What kind of writing should
we be teaching?
As you can see, Scott's example raises questions for me about what we
are doing in college writing classes.
Peter
On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:41 PM, Bob Brannan wrote:
> Hi, All:
>
> My experience with all my comp students from developmental to
> advanced is similar to Scott's, though my developmental students
> don't produce sentences as vivid as the example given. I teach
> absolutes and participials in the context of personal narrative,
> beginning with explanation, example sentences, and practice and then
> using a bit of sentence combining. When students are used to
> talking about language and moving pieces of sentences around, the
> absolutes and participials don't seem to pose a special problem. I
> also have students look for these structures when revising drafts
> for style concerns. Often they simply recognize the phrases that
> are already in a draft, and sometimes offer suggestions for
> combining shorter sentences for effect.
>
> Bob Brannan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> ] On Behalf Of David Kehe
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:02 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Sentence composing/grammar to improve writing
>
> Scott,
>
> As you pointed out, there should be a way to measure the
> effectiveness of teaching grammar. However, we also need to know
> what "teaching grammar" means. I doubt that your student produced
> that great sentence in a story after you merely introduced that
> structure of participle phrases. (You didn't "drill and kill," as
> Patty Lafayllve described, did you?) Would you mind summarizing the
> steps that it took to help him internalize and then apply this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of
> Scott Woods
> Sent: Wed 2/11/2009 6:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Sentence composing/grammar to improve writing
>
>
> Dear List,
> I have been using using Don Killgallon's Grammar for Middle School:
> A Sentence-Composing Approach with my seventh grade classes. Here's
> an example of a first sentence from a short story by one of my
> students, a native speaker of Arabic and not previously a very good
> writer:
>
> His face pale, his shirt stained with blood, his pants tattered, his
> shoes ripped and dirty, the Roman soldier advanced toward the
> castle, stepping over the rotting bodies of the British, every step
> taking him closer to the enemy's territory, every step taking him
> closer to death.
>
> Prior to learning to use absolute phrases and participial phrases
> (as well as the other modifiers he learned) this student could not
> have written such a sentence. He could not even really think about
> improving his style. Teaching students to consciously control
> sentence structure works, in my experience. Incidentally, students
> universally enjoy it.
>
> Why don't the studies which measure the effectiveness of teaching
> grammar look at the specific constructions and sentence types
> taught and the changes in the frequency and effectiveness of their
> use? Clause length and other such measures seem clumsy and not
> particularly useful as measures of writing skill if we are trying to
> improve student writing.
>
> Scott Woods
>
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