Johanna,

    I mainly used intransitive verbs as examples because Phil's original
question was about these "bare" constructions.  Only an intransitive
verb can give us this kind of pared down predicate.  (No modifiers or
complements.) Any kind of process can be made the object of a
perception verb.  (I saw her being drunk on many an occassion.) They
can be just as complex as an independent sentence.
   The case of the pronoun helps us realize that the whole structure is in
direct object slot. It can still be the subject of the following
clause.  I know this doesn't happen if the clause is finite, but I'm
still not convinced. ("I saw she stole the watch.") Perhaps it argues
against my position, but not to the extent that it settles the
argument.  At any rate, that means less to me than the way it functions
in our understanding.


Which car did you see?  "I saw the car crashing into the wall." 
(adjectival, restrictive.)
What did the slick roads do?  "The slick roads sent the car crashing into
the wall."  (object complement, causative verb).
What did you see? "I saw the car crashing into the wall."  The car
crashing into the wall is now acting like a single object. It does not
modify car nor present a consequence of my seeing. Notice that "the" can
be replaced by "Paul's", though that wouldn't be the case with the
sentence above.  ("I saw Paul's car crashing into the wall" would be a
weird answer to "which car did you see?")
   To me, those are distinctions well worth making.

Craig

  Johanna asked me to forward this.  I'll respond in a another post.
>
> Craig
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: See spot run
> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:04:48 -0800
> From: Johanna Rubba <[log in to unmask]>
> To: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
> References:
> <[log in to unmask]>
> <p06110400bffc45921996@[192.168.2.2]>
> <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> Craig,
>
> I hate continuing to ask people to post for me, but I haven't resolved
> the e-mail issue yet.
>
> As to "See Spot run", this construction isn't limited to intransitive
> verbs, as your "I saw the young lady steal the watch". And I think the
> main argument for seeing these as object complements is the case
> marking on the subject of the infinitive verb: "I saw _her_ steal the
> watch." These were analyzed as subject-raising constructions in
> transformational grammar -- the tension between the subject role of the
> "her" and its object role causes the problem and the variation in
> analytical approaches.
>
> Regarding causatives vs. perception verbs, English regularly treats
> perception verbs as transitives, if not causatives, so I don't think
> it's odd to find them in these constructions. As to your process
> argument, the lack of either tense or aspect marking on the verb works
> against it; this kind of marking serves exactly the purpose of not
> imposing a particular tense/aspect reading.
>
> Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
> Linguistics Minor Advisor
> English Department
> California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> Tel.: 805.756.2184
> Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596
> Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374
> URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
>
>
>
>
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