Bill,
A usage that would come very naturally to me (maybe my northeast
dialect) would be a sort of implied comparative. "I didn't think they
would get here so soon," meaning something like "as early as they did."
"I didn't think they would beat us so easily," again meaning something
like "as easily as they did". I wouldn't think it odd at all for someone
to say "I shouldn't have had dessert, but the cake looked so good" or "I
wanted to work in the garden, but the day was so hot." To me, it seems
most natural with the implication of degree or extent.
What I hear all the time, though, is something like "that song is so
hot," or "my grandmother is so sweet," where "so" is mostly
intensifier. It may feel informal, but I wouldn't have a problem with it
in most writing. In my neck of the woods, it wouldn't raise eyebrows.
(How's that for mixing metaphors?)
Craig
Spruiell, William C wrote:
> Craig, Helene, Herb, et al.:
>
> I haven't (fortunately, as it turns out!) approached this as a
> prescriptive issue with students. I was partly interested simply because
> of the uses I had noted, and partly because I was wondering if it were
> one of those patterns that is never mentioned in style guides but which
> editors judge negatively. Alongside overt prescriptive rules there are
> "crypto-prescriptive" ones, and those are even more of a problem for
> students (e.g. double modals aren't allowed in standard written English,
> but most grammar books and style guides never mention them).
>
> I bounced "thanks so much" off a colleague from Oklahoma, and she said
> she had not heard it in her home state either. The old line about "data"
> not being the plural of "anecdote" applies fully here, but I am left
> wondering if regional dialect is involved (or maybe just a cultural
> pattern in which saying "thank you" is considered quite demonstrative
> enough in its own right, and likely to provide nervous shuffling and
> quick changes of the subject).
>
> Thanks! (Unironically!) -- Bill Spruiell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:36 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Unresolved comparative "so"
>
> Helene, Bill, and others,
> The OED has record of "so" without complement way back to Old English
>
> and carrying through.
> Sometimes this occurs with negative or interrogative clauses. Here's
> one from Middle English, fromChaucer: "And if a man wol aske him prively
>
> Why they been clothed so unthriftily." From 1850: "What am I to say in
> answer to conduct so preposterous?"
> You might be able to make a case that it means something like "to
> such an extent". This, from wordsworth: "A voice so thrilling ne'er was
> heard."
> But the OED also lists it "in affirmative clauses, tending to become
> a mere intensive without comparative force, and sometimes emphasized in
> speaking and writing." "Among the floures, so swete of ayre" (1503).
> Dickens (1837): My dear brother is so good."
> It also intensifies adjectives, often followed by a... "so great a
> blunder". "so boldfaced a lie."
> It can also intensify verbs: "What payne doth thee so appall?"
> (spencer, 1579).
>
> The word is very, very rich and interesting, so give yourself some
> time if you want to look it up. (I didn't think it would be SO rich.")
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> helene hoover wrote:
>
>> Well, Bill, I'm with you. I always tell my students that they need to
>> finish the comparison with the comparative "so." I usually use the
>> example, "She was SO excited, she wet her pants," and they tend to
>> remember that one. Of course, they don't always remember to
>> incorporate the ending in their writing, but memories are fairly
>> easily jogged if I mention it again! Helene Hoover
>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:58:37 -0500
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Unresolved comparative "so"
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Dick,
>>
>>
>>
>> This is by no means the first time that what I thought was an odd
>> usage turned out to be the norm, or vice versa ("What do you mean
>> 'might should' sounds funny?"). I wonder whether I can blame this
>> one on dialect, or whether (instead) I've fallen into the old
>> grammar pedant's trap of trying to foist my idiolect on the
>>
> universe.
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, er, muchly,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Spruiell
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Veit, Richard
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:29 PM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: Unresolved comparative "so"
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill:
>>
>>
>>
>> I Googled "thanks so much" in parentheses and got 17 million hits.
>> Then I added 1950 (randomly chosen date) and looked at some
>> newspaper archives where the phrase appeared. Here is one example
>> from an Iowa newspaper in 1950
>>
>>
> <http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=glp&search=%e2%80
> %9cthanks%20so%20much%e2%80%9d%201950&img=1726695>.
>
>> Clearly, it's not a new expression.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick Veit
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Richard Veit
>> Department of English
>> University of North Carolina Wilmington
>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> *From:* Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Spruiell, William
>>
> C
>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:39 PM
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Unresolved comparative "so"
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out whether my reactions to a particular
>> construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my
>> native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative
>> "so" without an accompanying "that" clause, roughly equivalent to
>> "very":
>>
>>
>>
>> A: "Thanks so much"
>>
>> B: "It was so hot."
>>
>>
>>
>> I hear (A) very frequently, but I don't remember hearing it when I
>> was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students,
>> although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set
>> expression. I can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only
>> with a lot of emphasis on the "so" and an emphatic drop at the end
>> of the sentence, but this is not always how my students use it.
>> Somehow, I can't manage (A) at all - any attempt and I can tell
>> it's coming out as sarcasm ("Oh, now my leg's broken. Thanks SO
>> much.").
>>
>>
>>
>> I've checked the American Dialect Society listserv archive, but I
>> either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn't been much
>> discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a
>> recent political robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the
>> candidate (who is older than I am) not only used (A), but managed
>> to sound natural while doing it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Spruiell
>>
>> Dept. of English
>>
>> Central Michigan University
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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