Tom:

The standard punctuation rule for compound predicates applies to all of
your examples:  i.e., no comma between the two structures, no matter how
long they are.  The comma signals the reader that another complete sentence
is on the way.  Sometimes, however, that comma turns that second predicate
into a kind of afterthought and gives it special emphasis. I think that you
can make that case in your sentences.  I certainly wouldn't mark them
wrong.  But bear in mind that your reader will pay special attention to the
TALK phrase, expecially when its length contrast so with the first verb
phrase.  In fact, if you had stuck to TALKED FOR HOURS in your last
example, instead of the long description you used, I would say that the
comma is called for.  That short phrase says "Pay attention."

Here's an example that I think most readers would agree needs the comma:

        I didn't believe him, and said so.

Here's an example illustrating the comma with a compound complement:

        My new white couch is beautiful, and expensive.


In both cases that comma could be replaced with a dash for even more emphasis.

In general, I think that the comma should be used only when that special
emphasis is warranted--whether the writer intended it or not.

I think that your CLOUDS sentence is a good example of that added emphasis.
However, the one following about the grade appeal looks like a comma error
to me: The two verbs, WRITE OUT and SUBMIT, are clearly equal ideas in
terms of both meaning and emphasis.

Another exception to the standard no-comma rule occurs with the
coordinating conjunction BUT.  Quite often the disjunction of BUT is
enhanced with a comma between compound structures within the sentence:

        I have visited a lot of big cities, but never Los Angeles.
        I have visited a lot of big cities, but have never visited Los Angeles.

I should mention too that biblical examples, as well as many 19th examples,
will not accurately illustrate today's conventions: Comma use has changed
toward a more open style.

As with so many rules of punctuation, it's important to keep in mind what
the effect on the reader will be.

Martha Kolln


>I have a question regarding grammar.  When does a compound predicate allow a
>comma?
>
>Last night we walked, and talked for hours.
>Last night we walked across the Seine bridge, and talked for hours.
>Last night we walked across the Seine bridge near the edge of the city's
>main downtown area, and talked about the current state of Parisian politics
>for hours.
>
>The grammar books I've consulted say that no comma should break up a
>compound predicate.  In The Bedford Handbook, Diana Hacker states, "Do not
>use a comma between comound elements that are not independent clauses.
>Though a comma should be used before a coordinating conjunction joining
>independent clauses, this rule should not be extended to other compound word
>groups." In the Chicago Manual of Style, I find a similar rule (5.33): "Care
>should be taken to distinguish between a compound sentence (two or more
>independent clauses) and a sentence having a compound predicate (two or more
>verbs having the same subject). Preferably, the comma should not be used
>between the parts of a compound predicate. Chicago then gives three examples
>of correct usage: (1) He had accompanied Sanford on his first expedition and
>had volunteered to remain alone at Port Royal. (2) Mrs. Chapuis has been
>living in the building for over thirty years and is distraught over the
>possibility of now having to move. (3) On Thursday morning Kelleher tried to
>see the mayor but was told the mayor was out of town." I am confused by the
>meaning of a "compound predicate" or a "compound word group." The dictionary
>defines compound as "to combine so as to form a whole." I can sort of see
>how putting a comma before the coordinating conjunctions in these sentences
>would make them awkward, since both phrases are more unified and make sense
>as one than if I were to separate them with a comma; however, I cannot
>always tell, and I am bothered by this ambiguity.
>
>According to this definition of a compound predicate, no commas would be
>allowed in any of the examples above.  Neither in the examples that follow.
>Is this always the case?
>
>And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful
>of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am
>gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that
>we may eat it, and die." (I do not understand why "eat it, and die" is not a
>compound word group/predicate. Both verbs belong to the same subject. I do
>understand why the author would choose to create a special pause there,
>though.
>
>The anxiety of the people over their country's champion, and the joy of
>victory will be felt universally in all of the world's races and economic
>structures.
>
>Another aspect of his scenes which do not make sense, and do not appear
>realistic, is his use of clouds.
>If you choose to appeal a grade, write the appeal out on a piece of paper,
>and submit it to me when you turn in your next essay.
>
>Nature, for someone living in Singabpore, is something articifically
>preserved, and small in scale-a great departure from the broad expanses of
>wilderness in Cole's paintings.
>Man works in tandem with nature, using its rivers to fish, and its wood to
>build log cabins.
>
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>
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