While I recall learning the Latin ablative absolute as a high school sophomore and then becoming aware of the nominative absolute in English, Koine Greek has a genitive absolute, like Attic, that behaves much like the Latin ablative absolute. Greek collapsed the uses of the Indo-European ablative case into the genitive and dative, losing the ablative altogether. So I'm surprised that a high school student of Koine, rare as they are, wouldn't have the same experience as a student of Latin.
Herb
Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of English
Ball State University
Muncie, IN 47306
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From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: February 2, 2009 1:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Developmental phases of grammar knowledge
If I remember correctly, children start being able to process passives at around the same time they start demonstrating the ability to recognize that someone is deliberately not telling the truth, which is kind of interesting.
With some of the more complex constructions, particularly low-frequency ones like absolutes, I think it’s worth asking whether we’re seeing an actual developmental effect, or (instead) simply the result of lack of exposure. It’s one thing to say we don’t see students producing these, it’s another to say they can’t. They certainly don’t hear absolute phrases much in everyday speech, and there are lots of options one can use instead of an absolute (I’m not counting the Being that… that native Michiganders seem to use a lot; I suspect it’s just a periphrastic conjunction).
Bill Spruiell
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Developmental phases of grammar knowledge
Scott,
I believe passive voice is one of those constructions, too.
Children at 5 or below see the grammatical subject as the actor---which makes some sense considering the nature of most English syntax.
Marshall
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From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Woods
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:53 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Developmental phases of grammar knowledge
Dear List,
I have read that some constructions do not appear in student writing until they are at the right age. I do not recall where I read this, but it seems to go against my experience, specifically, as I recall, the claim that absolute phrases do not show up until students are around 16. Has anyone else read anything like this? Does anyone have any references for this? Is this a widespread idea?
Scott Woods
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