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September 2000

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Subject:
From:
Reinhold Schlieper <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:48:36 -0400
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But we cannot challenge the fact that the sentence seems to be
acceptable in a variety of formats to a variety of speakers.  If we use
the healthy language-intuition of the native speaker as a guide, we
certainly could not mark the sentence ungrammatical in any sure-fire
unambiguous way.  I think that "that" and "who" are in free variation
for most dialects and perhaps even also for the prestige dialect.
Certainly, subjunctive and indicative uses for verbs tend to be in free
variation in all non-prestige dialects that I am aware of.  Indeed, the
subjunctive has virtually ceased to exist in most run-of-the-mill street
dialects, IMHO.  Perhaps we need to append to the query about this
sentence which dialect or which context that sentence appears in before
we could nail down any usage.

"(1)The little child is lonely; he would be happier if he had someone
that he can play with."

In my own pedantic way, I'd probably say: "The little child
seems/appears to be lonely [epistemological challenge, you know!]; he
might be happier [pure conjecture!] if he were to have someone [I really
ain't sure.] whom [Hey! I'm a stickler when it comes to case!] he could
play with."

==Cheers, Reinhold

Dr Caroline Chesebrough wrote:
>
>         I would not use 'that'. I understand this is not the subject
> under discussion, but the friend is a person, not an object so requires
> a personal pronoun. One could say "...if he had someone he could play
> with."
>
>         Caroline
>
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Johanna Rubba wrote:
>
> >  "(1)The little child is lonely; he would be happier if he had someone that
> > he can play with."
> >
> > Do any of the native speakers on this list find this sentence
> > grammatical? I can't imagine this being acceptable to anyone, but maybe
> > I'm wrong. The 'that' clause requires 'could'.
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Johanna Rubba   Assistant Professor, Linguistics
> > English Department, California Polytechnic State University
> > One Grand Avenue  • San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
> > Tel. (805)-756-2184  •  Fax: (805)-756-6374 • Dept. Phone.  756-259
> > • E-mail: [log in to unmask] •  Home page: http://www.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
> >                                        **
> > "Understanding is a lot like sex; it's got a practical purpose,
> > but that's not why people do it normally"  -            Frank  Oppenheimer
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >

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