John,
   If you read about the process of change in England, teacher preparation
was and has been a huge issue.  In their case, grammar was mandated
from on top and very few teachers felt prepared.  The sense I get is
that it has taken a generation to bring about real change.  There are
now committed and prepared teachers in place, even if still a minority.
There's also an interesting history of change in Australia, which I
wish I knew more about.
    Many people on the list are directly involved in teacher training and
many report not getting the appropriate respect from Education
programs or English departments. (On the other hand, I'm currently in
discussion about teaching a graduate course in "grammar and writing".
Unfortunately, those who want it aren't the same as those who would
approve it. We can fight these battles locally). In too many cases, a
single survey course in linguistics has been thought sufficient.  We
need a more realistic recommendation in place.  Ny own sense is that
three courses are more realistic minimum, with one being a survey of
linguistics as a field, one being a comprehensive survey of syntax,
and another focused on applications to teaching.>We should also
encourage a core of teachers who specialize in language much as most
other teachers specialize in literature.
   We definitely need volunteers to work on this part of the project.

Craig


Welcome to ATEG, Phil!
>       I enjoyed reading your post as well as the responses from others on
> the list. I, too, often reflect on the NCTE position statement on
> teaching grammar with the sense that if it remains as is,
> unchallenged and inflexible, it will only tighten its grip and
> expand its influence. Teachers are coming through their preparation
> programs with only a cursory glance at this statement and rarely a
> critical analysis. The language arts classroom is facing many
> problems, and grammar teaching is only one of them (as some
> colleagues in education like to point out). However, ATEG is a
> strong, extremely talented organization ready to address the issue
> of grammar teaching (and already doing so -- I thought Grammar Alive
> was an excellent start!). Any attempt to ignore the voices in this
> group (articulate and well-informed voices I would add), seems to me
> to be an example of clinging to tradition for the sake of tradition.
> I think that as ATEG utilizes more and more voices like yours, Phil!
>  , more
>  and more people will begin to listen.
>       It sounds like you would be perfect for the Scope and Sequence
> Project as well as ATEG's endeavors at the NCTE conference. I
> imagine that lots of ATEGers out there would love to get more
> involved. One of my main interests is addressing teacher education
> programs -- how they do or don't offer their students opportunities
> to specialize/train in language, understanding how it works, where
> it comes from, how it varies, etc. Is a course in pedagogical
> grammar the only grammar preparation for language arts teaching? How
> are language diversity and perspectives on grammar treated in the
> program's pedagogical framework, goals and objectives? These kinds
> of research questions might be useful to ATEG, and I would be glad
> to help in any way I can.
>       Is there a person to contact for ATEG members who want to get more
> involved in some way, perhaps as an advocate/promoter for the group
> or as a researcher/member of one of the main projects (i.e. Scope
> and Sequence)? Is the conference the best place to get "plugged in"?
>      Thanks for all you do, ATEG! Keep up the good work!
>
>   John Dews
>   University of Alabama
>
> Phil Bralich <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>   As everyone here is aware, the NCTE 1985 Position Statement about
> teaching
> grammar advocates against it to the detrimant of all language training
> native or foreign. While it seems to couch its criticism in the form of
> the supposed lack of benefit that grammar study has on writing alone, it
> seems to presuppose that there would be no other sufficiently useful
> reason for teaching grammar. The position thereby has the effect of
> shutting down all grammar teaching.
>
> It strikes me that of all the groups that exist in academe today, the one
> most appropriate to address this embarassment to American education is
> ATEG. Is there currently a working group within ATEG which specifically
> addresses this issue with the goal of getting NCTE to renege and replace
> this statement with something more accurate and more consonant with the
> wishes of parents and many, many educators, business men and politicians?
>
> If there is such a group, I would like to participate. If there is no
> current group, I would be happy to take responsibility for setting one up,
> chairing, and spearheading such a group. If there is no current provision
> within ATEG for this sort of a group, perhaps interested parties could
> form an informal, ad hoc group, put together some joint research and
> positions papers, and offer this to ATEG/NCTE at a later point.
>
> Phil Bralich
>
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>
>
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