Hi, Pat and Gretchen,

If you are into hand-on, bodies-up activities, there are some great
activities to show the differences between speaking and writing. For ex:
You can ask  half of the class to write an explanation for tying shoelaces;
the other half for playing hop scotch or whatever. Then the groups exchange
directions and have to follow them as written. 

What this dramatizes is that, when we are actually doing things, we can
rely on the THINGS we use and our own actions - we don't have to specify
them. That's why we need NOUNS for writing, and other vocabulary we don't
ordinarily use when doing whatever we do during the day.

A lot of those subordinations are used to pack information into
nominalizations -- noun phrases and clauses.  

You can tie the responses from Herb Salthe and Pat Dykstra together... When
we write, we have to take what we want to say and unpack it, naming its
parts. And then we have to keep those parts on the table somehow, so the
reader can still "see" them, even while we add to them. To do that without
making a mess,  we keep old things in the background. Old information
usually goes first in the sentence or else gets stuck into a subordinated
clause. New information usually follows the old....

Once the students start to "get" the purpose, then you can show them the
forms and structures. Tools for their writing toolkit.

Judy


At 10:30 AM 1/8/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi Pat and Gretchen,
>I  teach developmental writing at a community college.  I am not sure if
this fits
>the grammar/linguistic approach you are looking for, but here is what
works for my
>students.
>
>1.  I begin with the differences between talking and writing.  During the
first
>class, I ask students which they would rather do: talk or write.  Then I ask
>Why?   The discussion uncovers many differences between talking and
writing, one
>of which is that they have different structures.  I explain that we talk
in chunks
>of information, stringing them along until we have gotten our point
across.  We
>write in sentences.  This is important for students to know because it
explains
>why they write fragments and runons: they are writing the way they talk. When
>talking, many phrases and clauses can stand as complete thoughts; when
writing,
>they are fragments.  A run-on is simply stringing along information, often by
>connecting ideas with the words and and so, and then using a period when
they have
>completed that thought.
> As an aside, this writing-talking framework is helpful throughout the
course.
>When we talk, the person is right with us.  When we write, the reader is
absent,
>necessitating the writing conventions.  We need punctuation (readers need
to know
>how our ideas connect and where they begin and end),  correct spelling (we
know
>what word we mean, but readers don’t), paragraphing and clarifying rambling
>discourse (readers cannot keep track of our ideas and will be confused or
bored).
>
>2. I then teach how sentences work.  A sentence has two parts: a subject and
>predicate.  The subject gives the "who or what.”  The predicate gives the
"what
>about it?”   This simple formula helps them dissect and understand all
kinds of
>sentences.  For example, "Whatever goes around comes around.”  This would
confuse
>most of my students if I asked them to find the subject and verb.  Asking
them to
>find the subject (who or what) and the predicate (what about it) helps
them see
>these words as a sentence.
>
>3. I use the image of a bicycle.  A subject and predicate connect (without a
>comma– one of my basic writers’ errors) to form a stable structure.  That
stable
>structure can hold a variety of additions: on the front, in the middle, or
at the
>end (starters, interrupters, enders).  We mark these additions with commas
because
>readers need to know where the additions begin and end.  Readers are always
>looking for the subject and predicate so they can understand the point of the
>sentence. The commas help them see the core sentence, the bike.
>
>4.  We then practice a variety of additions that can be added to the bike,
>including -ing additions, -ed additions, and definition additions.
Understanding
>how sentences work helps my students improve their writing, and according
to them,
>their reading.  Much of this can be found in The Rhythms of Writing, which
I must
>be honest, I wrote.  You can get a free desk copy at Houghton Mifflin.
Hope this
>helps.
>
>Pam Dykstra
>South Suburban College
>South Holland, Illinois
>
>Gretchen Lee wrote:
>
>> Hi Again,
>>
>> I should have added to my previous post (asking for grammar curriculum)
that
>> I will be forwarding the posts all you experts send in to her/NCTE
unless you
>> tell me that you object to this in your post.  There was quite a bit of
>> enthusiasm on NCTE about the whole idea, and several people asked to me to
>> share anything you advise Pat.
>>
>> Okay, folks.  You have the attention of some English teachers.  Have at it!
>> Just let me know if you object to me forwarding anything you post.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Gretchen in San Jose
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Setting up a Grammar Class
>> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:36:16 EST
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Hi, Everyone,
>>
>> A friend of mine is setting up a grammar class at the high school level.
 She
>> is planning on it being a class on analyzing the language - not a
>> grammar-to-improve-writing class.  I've pasted her post to NCTE (with
>> permission) here and am requesting any advice you have for her.  She's not
>> sure how to structure the class.
>>
>> What should a high school grammar/linguists class curriculum look like?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gretchen in San Jose
>> *************
>> Jan, LouAnn and others,
>>     I will send you stuff as soon as I know what I am doing.  I mean, I
>> know I am going to be teaching grammar, and I know we will cover
>> sentence structure, fragments, run ons, simple, compound, complex,
>> compound-complex and try to write a Henry James sentence (Or Jack
>> Kerouac sentence for that matter).  Also all sorts of phrases, clauses,
>> verb and pronoun usage, general usage problems, coordination and
>> subordination and other logical type stuff.
>>     Just thinking of how to approach it.  I want to incorporate technology,
>> use the friday writing and still see that the kids learn what they want
>> to learn.  I am thinking of jigsawing some of the information so that
>> certain groups become "experts" and present to the rest of the class.
>> Might be where we can incorporate  technology there.  Powerpoint etc.  I
>> think, in light of Brenda's thread, the friendly little gerund deserves
>> his own web site don't you?
>>
>> Pat Schulze in SD who is getting ideas as I type this.
>>
>> Louann Reid wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree that when students want to learn something they will, and that's
>> one of
>> > the key features of the class Pat describes--besides Pat's own spirit and
>> > enthusiasm, as Jan points out.  Another key feature is that grammar is
being
>> > taught just as I believe it should be--as a study of language
structure to
>> > students able to deal with that kind of conceptual thinking.  Too
often the
>> > debate over teaching grammar focuses only on the qualifier that such
>> teaching
>> > has little effect on writing.  I agree that teaching grammar in order to
>> improve
>> > students' writing has probably not been worth the time it takes.
HOWEVER,
>> > teaching grammar so that people will understand their language ought
to be
>> > highly effective.  Good luck and keep us posted!
>> >
>> > Louann
>> >
>> > Monica Bomengen wrote:
>> >
>> > > Jan posted,
>> > >
>> > > <<PATS! - send syllabus/lesson plans or post on your web page or let me
>> send
>> > > you postage! I'm interested in seeing how you tackle this.
>> > >
>> > > I think what may make the difference in this is that kids are
choosing to
>> > > sign up for it, rather than having it thrust upon them. That--plus your
>> own
>> > > special spirit and enthusiasm--will make it work just fine.>>
>> > >
>> > > Absolutely correct.  When kids WANT and NEED to learn something,
they'll
>> > > seek it out.  What a great thing, that 30 kids signed up for this
course.
>> > >
>> > > Monica B
>> > > ______
>
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