Brad,
    Here is the first sentence to Hemingway's The Old man and the Sea: 
"He was an old man who fished alone in a skiff in the gulf Stream and he 
had gone eighty-four days now without taking a fish." It starts in past 
and shifts to past perfect to discuss a period of time continuing into 
the day the narrative starts. If you look at the whole paragraph, you 
can see how he carries that out in following sentences as well.
The point all of us are trying to make (patiently, I think) is that 
context matters.
    "John was angry. His application had been turned down twice in three 
weeks."
   There are very good reasons to mix these structures in a single 
sentence.

Craig


Brad Johnston wrote:
> *So it makes no difference whether we say, ".. because his application 
> WAS turned down", or, ".. because his application HAD BEEN turned down"?*
> ** 
> *Would you write the two sentences about John being upset on the 
> blackboard and tell students it doesn't matter which verbs they use, 
> "was" or "had been"? *
> ** 
> *.brad.15feb08.*
> ** 
> */Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>/* wrote:
>  
> Memo to Brad:
>  
> Your posts provide an interesting entry into a point that many 
> students find difficult to learn - or, perhaps more accurately, that I 
> find difficult to teach - namely, the "tone" of academic 
> discourse.  Telling students that the purpose of their writing is not 
> to teach "life's lessons" always manages to produce much debate.  
> So there is nothing, of course, that's inherently wrong with giving 
> grammar surveys to grammarians, or particularly disturbing 
> with results that show we have different positions when it comes to 
> reading and analyzing texts.  (I believe a prior post on this subject 
> pointed out that context has a lot to do with interpretation.)  A 
> writing researcher whom I greatly admire (David Bartholomae) describes 
> the student's job as "joining the conversation."  Thus, the "life's 
> lesson" to be learned by those who would engage academic grammarians 
> in grammar surveys is simply this - to be treated as an equal, don't 
> presume to be superior.  So, Brad, keep up the good work - you're on 
> your way!
>  
> Geoff
>
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