ATEG Archives

February 2008

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
"STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:27:36 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (137 lines)
Whether to use "that" at the beginning of a noun clause or relative clause really is, in most cases, a matter of clarity.  English has been producing these clauses with and without "that" for a thousand years.  If you felt the "that" was helpful, then follow your judgment.  It often has as much to do with the cadence of a sentence as with clarity, but sometimes clarity requires it.  But it is a judgment call.  Dwight Bolinger did a wonderful short study of the use of "that" published as _That's that_, and he deals with the omission of "that."  He also has a few examples showing that the word is not devoid of meaning.  It's more than just a syntactic marker, but the distinction it makes doesn't stand out very often.

It is, of course, an accident of English spelling that the demonstrative "that" and the subordinator "that" are spelled alike.  They're two different words.  That's also an example of a sentence from which I would not want to omit the subordinator; it clarifies the structure.  In the sentence before it, there's no need for "that" before "it makes."

Herb


-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Nancy Tuten
Sent: Sat 2/16/2008 10:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The use of "that"
 
We are having the same conversation right now among the faculty in the
English Department. Our administrative assistant, whom I had asked to
proofread a letter of recommendation, wanted to remove a "that" that I felt
was helpful (wish I had that sentence in front of me). So far, the
colleagues who have commented agree that in many cases, the word "that"
makes the sentence far more readable.

One of my colleagues had this to say: 

I almost want to include a that when it is a subordinate conjunction but not
always a that when it is a relative pronoun used as an object.  

Ex. 1 I believe that . . . . (subordinate conjunction). 

Ex. 2 The book I want is on the table (relative pronoun)

I would echo that thought. 

I eagerly await your replies.

Nancy

 

Nancy L. Tuten, PhD

Professor of English

Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program

Columbia College

Columbia, South Carolina

 <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]

803-786-3706

  _____  

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The use of "that"

 

As I am reading student essays today, I'm wondering if the use of "that,"
which many of the students tend to omit, is necessary in certain
circumstances and what function it serves. For instance:

 

1) I think that we should go to the grocery store today rather than Sunday.

 

vs.

 

2) I think we should go to the grocery store today rather than Sunday.

 

or, a 3rd person example, since the above are more representative of speech
than writing:

 

3) Jean thinks that Genuardi's is a better supermarket than Giant.

 

vs.

 

4) Jean thinks Genuardi's is a better supermarket than Giant.

 

 

My feeling is that "that" should be in the sentence. Does it function as a
complementizer in the above sentences? (I tend to get confused with "that"
clauses).

 

Thank you!

Carol Morrison

 

 

  

  _____  

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>  your homepage.
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
the list" 

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ 


To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

ATOM RSS1 RSS2