The comma is invaluable in a list of nouns particularly (the serial 
comma)to avoid the writer's having to stop to think whether the comma 
is necessary for comprehension.  Those who espouse the omission of any
comma before a conjunction (a common occurrence in the USA) should be
confined to a diet of mangos, chocolate and anchovy pizza pie;{)>

How can teachers be prepared to embrace and teach grammar when neither
their teachers nor their professors were acquainted with the subject.
In small-town FL, I was taught grammar beginning in grammar school and
continuing through my freshman year at MS Southern, and Advanced Grammar
was required for potential majors or minors in English. My daughter, on
the other hand, had the choice of television mysteries or science-fiction
novels because she did not like the teacher in the advanced placement
class her senior year--and grammar was reserved for AP students.

Being trained as a linguist does not necessarily help you in grammar
and usage: I have met too many 'linguists' whose knowledge began with
Chomsky and whose belief held that English 'errors' are not politically
correct.

I had four separate graduates from a superb religious preparatory
academy tell me individually that they had never understood key passages 
in the Bible until they had to diagram them in my class.  They thanked
me for giving them a tool that helped them to comprehend the Bible
without their having to resort to someone else's interpretation.   

Scott Catledge

-----Original Message-----
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Subject: ATEG Digest - 11 Jan 2008 to 12 Jan 2008 (#2008-5)

There is 1 message totalling 155 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Commas in compound sentences

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Date:    Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:14:48 -0500
From:    Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Commas in compound sentences

Edmond,
   The copy-editor, who will go unnamed here, is otherwise very thoughtful
and accomplished and trained as a linguist. It wasn't just a sporadic
change, but a purposeful and systematic one. He made other suggestions
that were helpful.
   I apologize for making a generalization on the basis of one source. I'm
happy to be corrected.>
   From your perspective, how is the reintroduction of grammar faring? Is
there much resistance? Are the teachers prepared to embrace and teach
it?

Craig

> Craig,
>
> I don't know where your British copy-editor got that extraordinary idea
> that
> we don't use the comma in compound sentences.  Perhaps it is one sad
> result
> of the disappearance of all things linguistic from our English syllabuses
> --
> the result of the great neo-romantic banishment of grammar in the sixties
> and onwards.  I have the commas for that purpose all over my book, as well
> as a crop of semicolons and colons, and my copy-editor was perfectly happy
> with them all.
>
> You ask about my book -- that is a distinct temptation to send you, and
> presumably (brazenly) everyone else! -- the advertisement for it and what
> the cover looks like, but I don't think ATEG accepts attachments.  I'll
> send
> them separately directly to you.
>
> Edmond
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Edmond,
>>    I have a British publisher (Equinox) for my book, Meaning-Centered
>> Grammar. Believe it or not, the copy editor took all those commas out
>> (hundreds, maybe thousands over the course of the whole book), and did
>> this despite the fact that I advocate their use in my chapter on
>> grammar and writing. I was told at the time that he was following
>> British practice. When I objected, I won the argument, and they were
>> dutifully put back in. Perhaps I was misled?
>>    It may be the systems that we get used to come to seem the most
>> functional, perhaps because we find ways to defy expectations
>> purposefully. If the final series comma is expected, then we can make a
>> point by leaving it out, as in "peanut butter and jelly" or "down and
>> out", which are often one thing rather than two.
>>    Is your book as interesting as its title?
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Craig,
>>>
>>> Where did you get the idea that in Britain we don't put commas before
>>> conjunctions in compound sentences?  We adopt the FANBOYS rule all
>>> right
>>> (unless your speaker was gabbling at high speed -- or was Dickens' Mrs.
>>> Lirriper or Joyce's Molly Bloom!).  As you say, we do largely omit the
>>> comma
>>> before the conjunction in a list of nouns or verbs, etc., though that
>>> is
>>> not
>>> absolute -- for there are occasions where the comma emphasizes
>>> distinctness
>>> for some reason:  for example, I kept this so-called 'Oxford' comma in
>>> the
>>> title of my recent book 'Narrative, Perception, Language, and Faith'
>>> because
>>> the appearance in the argument of the topic of faith is intended to be
>>> something of a surprise.
>>>
>>> Edmond
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Edmond Wright
>>> 3 Boathouse Court
>>> Trafalgar Road
>>> Cambridge
>>> CB4 1DU
>>> England
>>>
>>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>> Website: http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/elw33/
>>> Phone [00 44] (0)1223 350256
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to complicate the talk (after all these votes for simplicity),
>>>> British practice differs from American on this one. They don't ask for
>>>> commas here (before the conjunction linking compound sentences) or
>>>> before the final element in a series (with "and" or "or".) >
>>>>     What you would hope for, I think, is consistency, not just a
>>>> sporadic
>>>> sprinkling. If the comma is included or left out DELIBERATELY and
>>>> consistently, then I don't think we should command otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
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