Brad says "I concluded from an early questionnaire, in which 40 respondents differed 60-40 on one simple either-or choice and the same people differed 50-50 on another, that there is some misunderstanding somewhere....There WAS a demonstrable difference in how professional grammarians viewed it, whatever "it" was."
But does "a demonstrable difference in how professional grammarians viewed it" necessarily amount to a "misunderstanding"? I don't think it does. There might not be a singular or definitive right answer to the question at hand, and if there isn't, various grammarians may all understand the issue well enough but still arrive at different answers.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Brad Johnston
Sent: Thu 4/30/2009 2:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Craig: Making Peace In The Language Wars
Craig,
I wonder why you misquote me so badly. Are you that hard up for a whipping boy or do you not understand what you read?
What I have said "over and over again" is that "there is at least one past perfect error on any grammar website or in any grammar textbook you can name". That statement, in those exact words, is at the bottom of each and every one of what is now 107 exhibits from 107 different grammar sources. If you doubt me, pick any number from 1 to 107 and I'll pull it up.
The point is that the errors are clearly demonstrable. It does NOT mean that "the handbooks and grammar books have it all wrong". I have NOT said it and I do NOT believe it.
The conclusion any reasonable person would come to, if he or she considered the data, would have to be that there is, resipsa loquitur, a degree of misunderstanding. Just as I concluded from an early questionnaire, in which 40 respondents differed 60-40 on one simple either-or choice and the same people differed 50-50 on another, that there is some misunderstanding somewhere. It doesn't matter what the questions were or how valid they may have been relative to the fixed stars. There WAS a demonstrable difference in how professional grammarians viewed it, whatever "it" was.
Would you like to go somewhere with this information or do you want to continue amusing yourself with how many ways you can abuse the messenger before you finally kill him?
It's all right there and it does not vanish because you shut your eyes and hope the others will all do the same.
Here's an entry from my Grammar Exhibits file:
~~~~~~~~~~~
Meaning-Centered Grammar, by Craig Hancock, c.2005.
My dinner had been being eaten by your dog.
Jesus! Is it any wonder students hate grammar and never really learn it? This one is too dumb to contemplate and is totally inappropriete as one of only a very few examples in a grammar text.
There is no entry in the Index for "past perfect", which is what he calls it in the text.
This is Exhibit #90+ to my assertion that there is at least one past perfect error on any grammar website or in any grammar textbook you can name.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I know you've seen this before. It says that the noted sentence is, "inappropriate as one of only a very few examples". It does NOT say that the entire grammar text "has it all wrong".
Had you said to me, "Oops, how did that blooper slip into my otherwise fine grammar text?", we could have pressed on without all the manufactured acrimony that you and others have heaped upon me.
We can deal with it or not but please don't write, "Brad keeps saying over and over again that the handbooks and grammar books have it all wrong." That is NOT what Brad says nor what Brad thinks nor what Brad means nor what Brad believes.
.brad.30apr09.
--- On Thu, 4/30/09, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Herb,
This sort of confusion is critical to those of us who want to orient students to standard practice without necessarily being limited by it. Usually, that means selecting or recommending a good handbook, but presenting it as a conservative sort of advice. It can cause nothing but confusion if a teacher gives idiosyncratic advice (as Brad does), but presents it as a standard advice. This is the "right way", the "correct way", implies that there's a consensus. Brad keeps saying over and over again that the handbooks and grammar books have it all wrong. If this is a unique view, then you can't assert the weight of authority behind it.
Craig
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