I'd suggest we not split the list, esp since I think a number of us identify with both grammarians and linguists.  Setting aside a portion of the list is in effect creating a new list within a list, and there are practical problems.  For instance, as the overall ATEG list grows and changes, will newcomers know there are essentially two lists?  How often does the list manager have to update and revise these sub-lists?  I think it's a bit much to ask list managers to keep up with such matters.  I might be missing something, but it seems to me it would be overreacting to some minor disputes.

If someone wants to create a non-ATEG list devoted to grammar and linguistics--fine.  I think a number of us would want to join that one also.  But I for one see no reason to encourage creating various sub-groups that have far more in common than they have differences.  

I've spend most of my career in the shadow of a split between literature and composition/rhetoric faculty (if not a split between composition and rhetoric, for heaven's sake), and it seems to me the splitting of this list into grammarians vs linguists is not productive to either good discussions of language or to our scholarly and teaching community.  I've grown tired of such false dichotomies, and I suspect I'm not alone.

Larry

____________________________
Larry Beason, Associate Professor
Director of Composition
University of South Alabama
Mobile, AL 36688-0002
Office: 251-460-7861
FAX: 251-461-1517


>>> "Dixon, Jack" <[log in to unmask]> 7/18/2011 12:42 PM >>>
Excellent suggestion.    Grammarians, communicate directly with the list manager.

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: How to deal with a crackpot

    If I am not mistaken, it is possible to direct messages directly to the keeper of the list. If there are grammarians among us who would like to see the list (or a portion of the list) set aside for grammarians only (as Brad would define it), without commentary from linguists, then perhaps they should communicate that directly to the list manager. If there are a large number among us who feel that way, then the list manager could let that be known, and we could take the suggestion seriously. If not, then let's continue as we have in the past.

Craig



On 7/18/2011 12:39 PM, Carole Hurlbut wrote:
I would appreciate discussions to be respectful and positive. I delete some emails and may need to use a filter or block. Thanks to members who make positive choices in their responses. I appreciate it.

Carole

From: Brad Johnston<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: How to deal with a crackpot

Note this, Geoffrey. See what I mean? There's nothing "crackpot" about "All Gaul is divided".

Bully the chickens and they won't reply. They just won't. No one likes to be bullied as Dick Veit likes to [try to] bully me.

(I changed email addresses because Internet Explorer is having problems that effect my old address. I now use Google Chrome and a new Yahoo address.  Nothing evil or devious about it.)

"exactly what he wants", b.t.w, is very clearly, and reasonably, stated in All Gaul is divided. Maybe, just maybe, the chickens don't want you in their hen house, Dick. If you ever ask them what they want, ask them if they want me in their hen house. If they (grammarians) don't, I will withdraw with considerably more good grace that you exhibit below.

.brad.18july11.

________________________________
From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 AM
Subject: How to deal with a crackpot
Why am I again getting mail from our resident crackpot, when I put a filter on my email account to block his messages?

Answers:
1. He changed his email address (so I will now block the new one too).
2. Non-crackpots keep responding to his mail. At long last, can't people realize that it is exactly what he wants? Just stop responding to him, no matter what crazy things he says to provoke you.

~~~~~

Date:    Sun, 17 Jul 2011 06:35:31 -0700
From:    Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: All Gaul is divided
Regarding the possible division of the two main parts of ATEG, which I hope will be considered at the annual meeting, it seems to me that the goal of grammar is that we all might be on the same page, literally and figuratively, so that we might be better able to understand one another.

Understanding one another doesn't depend on where words and conventions came from as much as what they mean. Linguists look at what people actually say and write, (and said and wrote), whereas grammarians try to agree on what makes sense to most of us most of the time. Linguists have different training, different interests, and different goals. They look at what divides us (descriptive grammar), while grammarians look for what joins us together (prescriptive grammar).

When the linguists, who dominate the ATEG listserv, go off on one of their arcane tangents, the grammarians politely say to the linguists, "that's interesting", but it's rather like a corn farmer saying "that's interesting" to a cattle rancher who describes the particulars of raising Holsteins. What interests the linguists IS interesting, it just isn't what makes the grammar world go around.

The demonstrable result is that the linguists tend to carry on their exotic discussions on this listserv and the grammarians tend to lurk in the shadows. I propose to you that there should be a way to better serve the grammarians, of whom there are thousands in this country, and who each have questions about the day-to-day of teaching grammar.

The grammarians can go somewhere else, of course, and maybe they do, but since ATEG is the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar, why is it not appropriate that ATEG concern itself with English Grammar and let the linguists go elsewhere and ponder, in a different venue, those things that interest them?

br-had.sun.17july11.
.

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