I find all four of the examples excruciatingly awkward.
Built in 1849, this was the mansion of perhaps the most-hated man in America or
The most hated man in America, perhaps, was born in this mansion in 1849.
Scott Catledge
P.S. I am hoping that the word American in lieu of America was merely a lapsus digitae.
---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 5 messages totalling 1661 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. modifier placement (3)
> 2. modifier placement - HELP! (2)
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 08:48:01 -0500
> From: Linda Di Desidero <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
>
> --e89a8ff1c822e6836204ee7039a1
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the
> grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the
> first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest
> to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase
> attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me.
> Examples:
>
> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
>
> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in 1849.
> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in
> 1849.
>
> Happy new year :)
>
> Linda
>
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to
> > conclusions.
> >
> > Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind
> > thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
> >
> > Dick
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >
> >> Dick & John,
> >>
> >> Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December
> >> 19).
> >> Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragment,
> >> apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
> >> The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
> >> The adjective phrase (participle) modifying *man*, which is a part
> >> of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very
> >> smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:
> >>
> >> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born on
> >> this day in 1849).*
> >>
> >> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: modifier placement
> >> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
> >>
> >> There are two possible interpretations:
> >>
> >> 1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of
> >> "mansion"
> >> 2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies
> >> "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
> >>
> >> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result
> >> is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous.
> >> Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most
> >> readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born
> >> in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done
> >> a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem
> >> would have been less likely to have arisen.
> >>
> >> Best holiday wishes.
> >> Dick
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <
> >> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Happy Holidays to all...
> >>
> >> I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most
> >> hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick) was born "on this
> >> day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced
> >> modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and
> >> best wishes...
> >>
> >>
> >> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this
> >> day in 1849.*
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Chorazy
> >> English I and III, Academic and Honors
> >> Advisor, *Panther Press* and Co-advisor, *Folio*
> >> Pequannock Township High School
> >> 973.616.6000
> >>
> >>
> >> Noli Timere
> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >> "Join or leave the list"
> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>
> >>
> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >> "Join or leave the list"
> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >> "Join or leave the list"
> >>
> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
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>
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>
> --e89a8ff1c822e6836204ee7039a1
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with =
> the grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to=
> the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is clos=
> est to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the ph=
> rase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me. E=
> xamples:<div>
> <br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born =
> in 1849.</div><div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, =
> built in 1849.</div><div><br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hat=
> ed man in American, who was born in 1849.</div>
> <div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was buil=
> t in 1849.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Happy new year :)</div><div><br></d=
> iv><div>Linda</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clea=
> r=3D"all">
> <div><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-seri=
> f;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Linda Di Desidero, PhD<=
> u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:ari=
> al,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center<u></u><u></u></p><p style=
> =3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:1=
> 3px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Marine Corps University<u></u><u></u=
> ></p>
> <p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
> t-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Gray Research Center, Room 1=
> 22<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:=
> arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Quantico, Virginia 22134<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(=
> 34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(=
> 255,255,255)"><a value=3D"+17037844401" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)">703-=
> 784-4401</a></p>
> </div>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick V=
> eit <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_=
> blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
> il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
> t:1ex">
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry =
> Clay and jumped to conclusions.<br><br></div><div>Frick may have been Ameri=
> ca's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his m=
> ansion and art collection in NYC.<br>
>
> </div><div><br></div>Dick<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
> class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <span=
> dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">bd=
> [log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
> x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,sans-serif=
> ;font-size:10pt"><div>Dick & John,</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist,=A0was indeed born in 1849 (Decemb=
> er 19).=A0 </div>
> <div>Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragme=
> nt, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?=A0 </div>
> <div>The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe n=
> ot.=A0 </div>
> <div>The adjective phrase (participle) modifying <strong><em>man</em></stro=
> ng>, which is a part of=A0the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), i=
> s not really a very smooth style.=A0 I think I would want to=A0rewrite it:<=
> /div>
>
>
> <div>=A0=A0=A0<br><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in Am=
> erica' (who was born on this day in 1849).</em></div>
> <div><em></em><br>--- <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blan=
> k">[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Dick Veit <<a href=3D"mail=
> to:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>To: =
> <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">ATEG@LISTSERV=
> .MUOHIO.EDU</a><br>
>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement<br>Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500<br=
> ><br></div><div><div>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>There are two possible interpretations:<br><br></div>
> <div>1)=A0=A0 ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifie=
> rs of "mansion"<br></div>
> <div>2)=A0=A0 ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase mod=
> ifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]<br></div><br></div>=
> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is=
> ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. B=
> ecause "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, mo=
> st readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was bor=
> n in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has don=
> e a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born=
> ," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.<br>
>
> <br></div>Best holiday wishes.<br></div>Dick<br></div>
> <div><br><br>
> <div>On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">john.chorazy=
> @pequannock.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
> DDING-LEFT:1ex">
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">Happy Holidays to all...</div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">I can infer that the intent of the=
> phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (refe=
> rring to Henry Clay <span>Frick</span>) was born "on this day" et=
> c. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier =
> suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes=
> ...</div>
>
>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><em>The stunning mansion of 't=
> he most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.</em></div><spa=
> n><font color=3D"#888888">
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div><br>-- <br>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div>John <span>Chorazy</span></div>
> <div>English I and=A0III, Academic and Honors</div>
> <div>Advisor, <em>Panther Press</em> and Co-advisor, <em>Folio</em></div>
> <div><span>Pequannock</span> Township High School</div>
> <div><a>973.616.6000</a></div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div><font face=3D"times new roman,serif"><span>Noli</span> <span>Timere</s=
> pan></font></div></div></font></span></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">To=
> join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interfac=
> e at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_=
> blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "J=
> oin or leave the list"=20
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_b=
> lank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div=
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web inter=
> face at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=
> =3D"_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select &q=
> uot;Join or leave the list"=20
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_b=
> lank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></div></div></div><div><div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
> ace at:
> <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_b=
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
> >http://ateg.org/</a>
> </p></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --e89a8ff1c822e6836204ee7039a1--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 17:13:14 +0000
> From: Melinda Schwenk-Borrell <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
>
> ------=_Part_255977_1261388877.1388077994851
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> O, LInda - grammar nerds are wonderful! But your examples make sense to me! Hope your christmas was fun. I haven't heard anything yet from UMUC, which makes this time a little angsty!
>
> Best,
>
> Melinda
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Di Desidero" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
>
>
> Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me. Examples:
>
>
> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
>
>
> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in 1849.
> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in 1849.
>
>
>
> Happy new year :)
>
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to conclusions.
>
>
> Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
>
>
> Dick
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
>
>
> Dick & John,
>
> Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December 19).
> Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
> The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
> The adjective phrase (participle) modifying man , which is a part of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:
>
> The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born on this day in 1849).
>
> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> From: Dick Veit < [log in to unmask] >
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There are two possible interpretations:
>
>
> 1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of "mansion"
>
> 2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
>
> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.
>
> Best holiday wishes.
> Dick
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
>
>
> Happy Holidays to all...
>
>
> I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick ) was born "on this day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes...
>
>
>
>
> The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> John Chorazy
> English I and III, Academic and Honors
> Advisor, Panther Press and Co-advisor, Folio
> Pequannock Township High School
> 973.616.6000
>
>
> Noli Timere To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> </blockquote>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> </blockquote>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> ------=_Part_255977_1261388877.1388077994851
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>O, LInda - grammar nerds are wonderful! But your examples make sense to me! Hope your christmas was fun. I haven't heard anything yet from UMUC, which makes this time a little angsty!<br><br>Best,<br><br>Melinda<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Linda Di Desidero" <[log in to unmask]><br><b>To: </b>[log in to unmask]<br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: modifier placement<br><br><div dir="ltr">Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me. Examples:<div>
> <br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.</div><div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.</div><div><br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in 1849.</div>
> <div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in 1849.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Happy new year :)</div><div><br></div><div>Linda</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
> <div><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Linda Di Desidero, PhD<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Marine Corps University<u></u><u></u></p>
> <p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Gray Research Center, Room 122<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Quantico, Virginia 22134<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">703-784-4401</a></p>
> </div>
> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> <div dir="ltr"><div>Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to conclusions.<br><br></div><div>Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.<br>
>
> </div><div><br></div>Dick<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
>
> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div>Dick & John,</div>
> <div> </div>
> <div>Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December 19). </div>
> <div>Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture? </div>
> <div>The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not. </div>
> <div>The adjective phrase (participle) modifying <strong><em>man</em></strong>, which is a part of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:</div>
>
>
> <div> <br><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born on this day in 1849).</em></div>
> <div><em></em><br>--- <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Dick Veit <<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement<br>Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500<br><br></div><div><div>
> <div dir="ltr">
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>There are two possible interpretations:<br><br></div>
> <div>1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of "mansion"<br></div>
> <div>2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]<br></div><br></div>Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.<br>
>
> <br></div>Best holiday wishes.<br></div>Dick<br></div>
> <div><br><br>
> <div>On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex">
> <div dir="ltr">
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">Happy Holidays to all...</div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay <span>Frick</span>) was born "on this day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes...</div>
>
>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.</em></div><span><font color="#888888">
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div><br>-- <br>
> <div dir="ltr">
> <div>John <span>Chorazy</span></div>
> <div>English I and III, Academic and Honors</div>
> <div>Advisor, <em>Panther Press</em> and Co-advisor, <em>Folio</em></div>
> <div><span>Pequannock</span> Township High School</div>
> <div><a>973.616.6000</a></div>
> <div> </div>
> <div> </div>
> <div><font face="times new roman,serif"><span>Noli</span> <span>Timere</span></font></div></div></font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the list"
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> <p>
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> </p></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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> </p></blockquote></div><br></div>
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> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> ------=_Part_255977_1261388877.1388077994851--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 17:14:42 +0000
> From: Melinda Schwenk-Borrell <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement - HELP!
>
> ------=_Part_255995_702183848.1388078082989
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Oops - please do not distribute the last message to the list -- my bad - just trying to respond to LInda's post.
>
> Thanks, Melinda Borrell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Linda Di Desidero" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
>
>
> Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me. Examples:
>
>
> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
>
>
> This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in 1849.
> *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in 1849.
>
>
>
> Happy new year :)
>
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to conclusions.
>
>
> Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
>
>
> Dick
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
>
>
> Dick & John,
>
> Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December 19).
> Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
> The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
> The adjective phrase (participle) modifying man , which is a part of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:
>
> The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born on this day in 1849).
>
> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> From: Dick Veit < [log in to unmask] >
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There are two possible interpretations:
>
>
> 1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of "mansion"
>
> 2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
>
> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.
>
> Best holiday wishes.
> Dick
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy < [log in to unmask] > wrote:
>
> <blockquote>
>
>
> Happy Holidays to all...
>
>
> I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick ) was born "on this day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes...
>
>
>
>
> The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> John Chorazy
> English I and III, Academic and Honors
> Advisor, Panther Press and Co-advisor, Folio
> Pequannock Township High School
> 973.616.6000
>
>
> Noli Timere To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> </blockquote>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> </blockquote>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> ------=_Part_255995_702183848.1388078082989
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> <html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Oops - please do not distribute the last message to the list -- my bad - just trying to respond to LInda's post.<br><br>Thanks, Melinda Borrell<br><br><hr id="zwchr"><b>From: </b>"Linda Di Desidero" <[log in to unmask]><br><b>To: </b>[log in to unmask]<br><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: modifier placement<br><br><div dir="ltr">Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me. Examples:<div>
> <br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.</div><div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.</div><div><br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in 1849.</div>
> <div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in 1849.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Happy new year :)</div><div><br></div><div>Linda</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
> <div><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Linda Di Desidero, PhD<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Marine Corps University<u></u><u></u></p>
> <p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Gray Research Center, Room 122<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Quantico, Virginia 22134<u></u><u></u></p><p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">703-784-4401</a></p>
> </div>
> <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
> <div dir="ltr"><div>Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to conclusions.<br><br></div><div>Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.<br>
>
> </div><div><br></div>Dick<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
>
> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div>Dick & John,</div>
> <div> </div>
> <div>Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December 19). </div>
> <div>Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture? </div>
> <div>The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not. </div>
> <div>The adjective phrase (participle) modifying <strong><em>man</em></strong>, which is a part of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:</div>
>
>
> <div> <br><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born on this day in 1849).</em></div>
> <div><em></em><br>--- <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Dick Veit <<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement<br>Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500<br><br></div><div><div>
> <div dir="ltr">
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>There are two possible interpretations:<br><br></div>
> <div>1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of "mansion"<br></div>
> <div>2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]<br></div><br></div>Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.<br>
>
> <br></div>Best holiday wishes.<br></div>Dick<br></div>
> <div><br><br>
> <div>On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex">
> <div dir="ltr">
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">Happy Holidays to all...</div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay <span>Frick</span>) was born "on this day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes...</div>
>
>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.</em></div><span><font color="#888888">
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style="FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div><br>-- <br>
> <div dir="ltr">
> <div>John <span>Chorazy</span></div>
> <div>English I and III, Academic and Honors</div>
> <div>Advisor, <em>Panther Press</em> and Co-advisor, <em>Folio</em></div>
> <div><span>Pequannock</span> Township High School</div>
> <div><a>973.616.6000</a></div>
> <div> </div>
> <div> </div>
> <div><font face="times new roman,serif"><span>Noli</span> <span>Timere</span></font></div></div></font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href="http://ateg.org/" target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a href="http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the list"
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> ------=_Part_255995_702183848.1388078082989--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 19:46:05 -0500
> From: Linda Di Desidero <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement - HELP!
>
> --047d7b16348d46e75104ee796b5b
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> hah---and my apologies for "most hated man in AmericaN"--what was I typing!
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Melinda Schwenk-Borrell <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Oops - please do not distribute the last message to the list -- my bad -
> > just trying to respond to LInda's post.
> >
> > Thanks, Melinda Borrell
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: *"Linda Di Desidero" <[log in to unmask]>
> > *To: *[log in to unmask]
> > *Sent: *Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: modifier placement
> >
> > Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the
> > grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the
> > first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest
> > to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase
> > attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me.
> > Examples:
> >
> > This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
> > *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
> >
> > This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in
> > 1849.
> > *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in
> > 1849.
> >
> > Happy new year :)
> >
> > Linda
> >
> >
> > Linda Di Desidero, PhD
> >
> > Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
> >
> > Marine Corps University
> >
> > Gray Research Center, Room 122
> >
> > Quantico, Virginia 22134
> >
> > 703-784-4401
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to
> >> conclusions.
> >>
> >> Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind
> >> thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dick & John,
> >>>
> >>> Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December
> >>> 19).
> >>> Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence
> >>> fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
> >>> The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
> >>> The adjective phrase (participle) modifying *man*, which is a part
> >>> of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very
> >>> smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:
> >>>
> >>> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born
> >>> on this day in 1849).*
> >>>
> >>> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: modifier placement
> >>> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
> >>>
> >>> There are two possible interpretations:
> >>>
> >>> 1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of
> >>> "mansion"
> >>> 2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies
> >>> "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
> >>>
> >>> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result
> >>> is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous.
> >>> Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most
> >>> readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born
> >>> in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done
> >>> a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem
> >>> would have been less likely to have arisen.
> >>>
> >>> Best holiday wishes.
> >>> Dick
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <
> >>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Happy Holidays to all...
> >>>
> >>> I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most
> >>> hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick) was born "on this
> >>> day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced
> >>> modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and
> >>> best wishes...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this
> >>> day in 1849.*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> John Chorazy
> >>> English I and III, Academic and Honors
> >>> Advisor, *Panther Press* and Co-advisor, *Folio*
> >>> Pequannock Township High School
> >>> 973.616.6000
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Noli Timere
> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >>> "Join or leave the list"
> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >>> "Join or leave the list"
> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >>> "Join or leave the list"
> >>>
> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>>
> >>
> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >> "Join or leave the list"
> >>
> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> > leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> > at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> > leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --047d7b16348d46e75104ee796b5b
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">hah---and my apologies for "most hated man in America=
> N"--what was I typing!</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"al=
> l"><div><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-s=
> erif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34=
> ,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(25=
> 5,255,255)">Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center<u></u><u></u><=
> /p>
> <p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;fon=
> t-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Marine Corps University<u></=
> u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,s=
> ans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> Gray Research Center, Room 122<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"margin:0px;colo=
> r:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-colo=
> r:rgb(255,255,255)">Quantico, Virginia 22134<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"m=
> argin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;b=
> ackground-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
> <a value=3D"+17037844401" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)">703-784-4401</a></=
> p></div>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Melind=
> a Schwenk-Borrell <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:melindaborrell@co=
> mcast.net" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrot=
> e:<br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
> x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-famil=
> y:Arial">Oops - please do not distribute the last message to the list -- my=
> bad - just trying to respond to LInda's post.<br>
> <br>Thanks, Melinda Borrell<br><br><hr><b>From: </b>"Linda Di Desidero=
> " <<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">=
> [log in to unmask]</a>><br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:ATEG@LIS=
> TSERV.MUOHIO.EDU" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
> <b>Sent: </b>Thursday, December 26, 2013 8:48:01 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: =
> modifier placement<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Just to jump in to the conversat=
> ion here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the parti=
> cipial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather =
> than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see nothin=
> g wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to=
> attach that way for me. Examples:<div>
>
> <br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born =
> in 1849.</div><div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, =
> built in 1849.</div><div><br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hat=
> ed man in American, who was born in 1849.</div>
>
> <div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was buil=
> t in 1849.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Happy new year :)</div><div><br></d=
> iv><div>Linda</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clea=
> r=3D"all">
>
> <div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-=
> serif;margin:0px">Linda Di Desidero, PhD<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"color=
> :rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:0px">
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center<u></u><u></u></p><p style=
> =3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:=
> 0px">Marine Corps University<u></u><u></u></p>
> <p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif=
> ;margin:0px">Gray Research Center, Room 122<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"co=
> lor:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:0px">
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);f=
> ont-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:0px"><a style=3D"color:rg=
> b(17,85,204)">703-784-4401</a></p>
> </div>
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick V=
> eit <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_=
> blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
> il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
> t:1ex">
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry =
> Clay and jumped to conclusions.<br><br></div><div>Frick may have been Ameri=
> ca's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his m=
> ansion and art collection in NYC.<br>
>
>
> </div><div><br></div>Dick<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
> class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <span=
> dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">bd=
> [log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
>
>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
> x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,sans-serif=
> ;font-size:10pt"><div>Dick & John,</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist,=A0was indeed born in 1849 (Decemb=
> er 19).=A0 </div>
> <div>Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragme=
> nt, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?=A0 </div>
> <div>The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe n=
> ot.=A0 </div>
> <div>The adjective phrase (participle) modifying <strong><em>man</em></stro=
> ng>, which is a part of=A0the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), i=
> s not really a very smooth style.=A0 I think I would want to=A0rewrite it:<=
> /div>
>
>
>
> <div>=A0=A0=A0<br><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in Am=
> erica' (who was born on this day in 1849).</em></div>
> <div><em></em><br>--- <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blan=
> k">[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Dick Veit <<a href=3D"mail=
> to:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>To: =
> <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">ATEG@LISTSERV=
> .MUOHIO.EDU</a><br>
>
>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement<br>Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500<br=
> ><br></div><div><div>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>There are two possible interpretations:<br><br></div>
> <div>1)=A0=A0 ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifie=
> rs of "mansion"<br></div>
> <div>2)=A0=A0 ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase mod=
> ifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]<br></div><br></div>=
> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is=
> ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. B=
> ecause "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, mo=
> st readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was bor=
> n in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has don=
> e a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born=
> ," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.<br>
>
>
> <br></div>Best holiday wishes.<br></div>Dick<br></div>
> <div><br><br>
> <div>On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">john.chorazy=
> @pequannock.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
> DDING-LEFT:1ex">
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">Happy Holidays to all...</div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">I can infer that the intent of the=
> phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (refe=
> rring to Henry Clay <span>Frick</span>) was born "on this day" et=
> c. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier =
> suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes=
> ...</div>
>
>
>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><em>The stunning mansion of 't=
> he most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.</em></div><spa=
> n><font color=3D"#888888">
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div><br>-- <br>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div>John <span>Chorazy</span></div>
> <div>English I and=A0III, Academic and Honors</div>
> <div>Advisor, <em>Panther Press</em> and Co-advisor, <em>Folio</em></div>
> <div><span>Pequannock</span> Township High School</div>
> <div><a>973.616.6000</a></div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div><font face=3D"times new roman,serif"><span>Noli</span> <span>Timere</s=
> pan></font></div></div></font></span></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">To=
> join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interfac=
> e at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_=
> blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "J=
> oin or leave the list"=20
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_b=
> lank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div=
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web inter=
> face at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=
> =3D"_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select &q=
> uot;Join or leave the list"=20
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_b=
> lank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></div></div></div><div><div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
> >http://ateg.org/</a>
> </p></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
> >http://ateg.org/</a>
> </p></blockquote></div><br></div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
> ace at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
> >http://ateg.org/</a>
> </p></div></div>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
> >http://ateg.org/</a></p></blockquote></div><br></div>
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
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>
> --047d7b16348d46e75104ee796b5b--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 21:17:03 -0500
> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement
>
> --001a11c2d3dea2389904ee7ab0fd
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Linda,
>
> I agree that the two starred sentences are bad, but perhaps they are more
> awkward than ungrammatical. "This is" as the opening may be to blame. I
> find the following to be fine:
>
> The mansion of the most hated man in America, built in 1849, is now
> celebrated as a world-class art museum.
>
> Here's one with not one but two nouns separating the participial phrase
> from the noun it modifies:
>
> The famous statue of Shakespeare in Central Park, commissioned in 1864,
> was not erected until 1872.
>
> I have no trouble with that one either.
>
> Dick
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Linda Di Desidero <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Just to jump in to the conversation here: I disagree with the
> > grammaticality judgment that allows the participial phrase to attach to the
> > first noun in the sentence--mansion--rather than the noun that is closest
> > to the participial phrase (man). I see nothing wrong with having the phrase
> > attach lower in the tree; in fact, it has to attach that way for me.
> > Examples:
> >
> > This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born in 1849.
> > *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, built in 1849.
> >
> > This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, who was born in
> > 1849.
> > *This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was built in
> > 1849.
> >
> > Happy new year :)
> >
> > Linda
> >
> >
> > Linda Di Desidero, PhD
> >
> > Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
> >
> > Marine Corps University
> >
> > Gray Research Center, Room 122
> >
> > Quantico, Virginia 22134
> >
> > 703-784-4401
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry Clay and jumped to
> >> conclusions.
> >>
> >> Frick may have been America's most hated man, but I always had kind
> >> thoughts when visiting his mansion and art collection in NYC.
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dick & John,
> >>>
> >>> Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist, was indeed born in 1849 (December
> >>> 19).
> >>> Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence
> >>> fragment, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?
> >>> The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe not.
> >>> The adjective phrase (participle) modifying *man*, which is a part
> >>> of the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), is not really a very
> >>> smooth style. I think I would want to rewrite it:
> >>>
> >>> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America' (who was born
> >>> on this day in 1849).*
> >>>
> >>> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: modifier placement
> >>> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500
> >>>
> >>> There are two possible interpretations:
> >>>
> >>> 1) ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifiers of
> >>> "mansion"
> >>> 2) ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase modifies
> >>> "mansion" and the second modifies [man]
> >>>
> >>> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result
> >>> is ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous.
> >>> Because "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, most
> >>> readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was born
> >>> in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has done
> >>> a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born," the problem
> >>> would have been less likely to have arisen.
> >>>
> >>> Best holiday wishes.
> >>> Dick
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <
> >>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Happy Holidays to all...
> >>>
> >>> I can infer that the intent of the phrase below suggests that "the most
> >>> hated man in America" (referring to Henry Clay Frick) was born "on this
> >>> day" etc. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced
> >>> modifier suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and
> >>> best wishes...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in America,' born on this
> >>> day in 1849.*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> John Chorazy
> >>> English I and III, Academic and Honors
> >>> Advisor, *Panther Press* and Co-advisor, *Folio*
> >>> Pequannock Township High School
> >>> 973.616.6000
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Noli Timere
> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >>> "Join or leave the list"
> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> >>> "Join or leave the list"
> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> >>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
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> >>>
> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >>>
> >>
> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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> >>
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
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>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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>
> --001a11c2d3dea2389904ee7ab0fd
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Linda,<br><br></div>I agree that =
> the two starred sentences are bad, but perhaps they are more awkward than u=
> ngrammatical. "This is" as the opening may be to blame. I find th=
> e following to be fine:<br>
> <br>=A0=A0=A0=A0 The mansion of the most hated man in America, built in 184=
> 9, is now celebrated as a world-class art museum.<div><br></div><div>Here&#=
> 39;s one with not one but two nouns separating the participial phrase from =
> the noun it modifies:<br>
> </div><br>=A0=A0=A0 The famous statue of Shakespeare in Central Park, commi=
> ssioned in 1864, was not erected until 1872.<br><br></div><div>I have no tr=
> ouble with that one either.<br><br></div><div>Dick<br></div></div></div></d=
> iv>
> </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,=
> Dec 26, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Linda Di Desidero <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
> =3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">linda.didesidero@g=
> mail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
> x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Just to jump in to the conv=
> ersation here: I disagree with the grammaticality judgment that allows the =
> participial phrase to attach to the first noun in the sentence--mansion--ra=
> ther than the noun that is closest to the participial phrase (man). I see n=
> othing wrong with having the phrase attach lower in the tree; in fact, it h=
> as to attach that way for me. Examples:<div>
>
> <br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, born =
> in 1849.</div><div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, =
> built in 1849.</div><div><br></div><div>This is the mansion of the most hat=
> ed man in American, who was born in 1849.</div>
>
> <div>*This is the mansion of the most hated man in American, which was buil=
> t in 1849.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Happy new year :)</div><div><br></d=
> iv><div>Linda</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clea=
> r=3D"all">
>
> <div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-=
> serif;margin:0px">Linda Di Desidero, PhD<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"color=
> :rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:0px">
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center<u></u><u></u></p><p style=
> =3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:=
> 0px">Marine Corps University<u></u><u></u></p>
> <p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif=
> ;margin:0px">Gray Research Center, Room 122<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"co=
> lor:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:0px">
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134<u></u><u></u></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);f=
> ont-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;margin:0px"><a value=3D"+1703784=
> 4401" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)">703-784-4401</a></p>
> </div><div><div class=3D"h5">
> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dick V=
> eit <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_=
> blank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
> il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
> t:1ex">
>
> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Right you are, Bruce. I was just reading about Henry =
> Clay and jumped to conclusions.<br><br></div><div>Frick may have been Ameri=
> ca's most hated man, but I always had kind thoughts when visiting his m=
> ansion and art collection in NYC.<br>
>
>
> </div><div><br></div>Dick<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div =
> class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bruce Despain <span=
> dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">bd=
> [log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br>
>
>
> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
> x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,sans-serif=
> ;font-size:10pt"><div>Dick & John,</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>Henry Clay Frick, the industrialist,=A0was indeed born in 1849 (Decemb=
> er 19).=A0 </div>
> <div>Am I right to assume that the awkward noun phrase is a sentence fragme=
> nt, apparently the title of an illustration or picture?=A0 </div>
> <div>The reference to "this day," however, makes me think maybe n=
> ot.=A0 </div>
> <div>The adjective phrase (participle) modifying <strong><em>man</em></stro=
> ng>, which is a part of=A0the quotative phrase (itself another fragment), i=
> s not really a very smooth style.=A0 I think I would want to=A0rewrite it:<=
> /div>
>
>
>
> <div>=A0=A0=A0<br><em>The stunning mansion of 'the most hated man in Am=
> erica' (who was born on this day in 1849).</em></div>
> <div><em></em><br>--- <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blan=
> k">[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Dick Veit <<a href=3D"mail=
> to:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>To: =
> <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">ATEG@LISTSERV=
> .MUOHIO.EDU</a><br>
>
>
> Subject: Re: modifier placement<br>Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 11:23:47 -0500<br=
> ><br></div><div><div>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>
> <div>There are two possible interpretations:<br><br></div>
> <div>1)=A0=A0 ...mansion [...man] [born...], where both phrases are modifie=
> rs of "mansion"<br></div>
> <div>2)=A0=A0 ...mansion [ [...man] [born...] ], where the first phrase mod=
> ifies "mansion" and the second modifies [man]<br></div><br></div>=
> Both are grammatical, but grammaticality counts for little if the result is=
> ambiguous and unclear. The result here is actually worse than ambiguous. B=
> ecause "born" is generally used with people and not buildings, mo=
> st readers are likely to assume the second reading, i.e., that Clay was bor=
> n in 1849. Since this is not true (he was born in 1777), the writer has don=
> e a poor job indeed. If he had used "built" instead of "born=
> ," the problem would have been less likely to have arisen.<br>
>
>
> <br></div>Best holiday wishes.<br></div>Dick<br></div>
> <div><br><br>
> <div>On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:34 AM, John Chorazy <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">john.chorazy=
> @pequannock.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
> <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PA=
> DDING-LEFT:1ex">
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">Happy Holidays to all...</div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif">I can infer that the intent of the=
> phrase below suggests that "the most hated man in America" (refe=
> rring to Henry Clay <span>Frick</span>) was born "on this day" et=
> c. But can I defend in grammatical terms that this is a misplaced modifier =
> suggesting that the mansion was born on this day? Thank you and best wishes=
> ...</div>
>
>
>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><em>The stunning mansion of 't=
> he most hated man in America,' born on this day in 1849.</em></div><spa=
> n><font color=3D"#888888">
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div>
> <div style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:georgia,serif"><br></div><br>-- <br>
> <div dir=3D"ltr">
> <div>John <span>Chorazy</span></div>
> <div>English I and=A0III, Academic and Honors</div>
> <div>Advisor, <em>Panther Press</em> and Co-advisor, <em>Folio</em></div>
> <div><span>Pequannock</span> Township High School</div>
> <div><a>973.616.6000</a></div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div>=A0</div>
> <div><font face=3D"times new roman,serif"><span>Noli</span> <span>Timere</s=
> pan></font></div></div></font></span></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">To=
> join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interfac=
> e at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_=
> blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "J=
> oin or leave the list"=20
> <div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_b=
> lank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div=
> >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web inter=
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> --001a11c2d3dea2389904ee7ab0fd--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 25 Dec 2013 to 26 Dec 2013 (#2013-62)
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