It strikes me that these are just examples of a more general trend: prepositional idioms seem to be in flux. The example that catches my ear is when students write--and say--"I did it on accident" instead of "by accident." Grammar Girls chased down someone's study on this that found that people over 35 almost exclusively say and write "by accident"; those between 15 and 35 say and write either; and those 15 and under almost exclusively say and write "on accident."
 
Research on other usages--such as Australian Questioning Inflection (AQI) indicate that the same 'trickle-up' effect is common, with language change seeming to originate spontaneously with younger users and gradually entering adult--and even 'standard' usage as those younger folks become adults.
 
And then we older folks get to complain about how the youth don't speak proper, just as our elders complained about us. Same goes for tastes in music, too.

Seth
 
Dr. Seth Katz 
Assistant Professor
Department of English
Bradley University

________________________________

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Paul E. Doniger
Sent: Sun 4/19/2009 4:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Grammar help: "First of all,..."


I wonder, is there any connection with this and my students' insistence on changing "based on" to "based off of?"

 

Paul D.


 "If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction" (_Twelfth Night_ 3.4.127-128).


________________________________

From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 2:22:00 PM
Subject: Re: Grammar help: "First of all,..."

Peter,

The OED links "first off" to a couple of other similar expressions.

From the entry on "off":
  11. Indicating precedence in time, as bang off, right off, straight off: straightaway, forthwith, immediately (see BANG v.1 8d, RIGHT adv. 3b, STRAIGHT adj. 2c). first off, next off: first, next, in sequence (see FIRST adv. 1f, NEXT adj., adv., and n. Compounds 3).

From the entry on "first":
  f. first off: at the first blush, in the first place, to begin with. U.S. colloq.
1880 'MARK TWAIN' Tramp Abroad xx. 193 First-off, I thought it would certainly give me the botts. 1897 W. D. HOWELLS Landlord at Lion's Head 445 First off, you know, I thought I'd sell to the other feller. 1910 W. M. RAINE B. O'Connor 39 Four's right. First off Neil, then the fellow I took to be the Wolf. 1915 Nation (N.Y.) 10 June 646/1 Men of science..no longer admit first off what simple good sense shows to us.

There seems to be no link with "first of all" but rather with other uses of "off."  The expression is at least designated as "colloq."

Herb 

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Adams
Sent: 2009-04-19 12:32
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Grammar help: "First of all,..."

Has anyone else noticed that "first of all" has, for many students,  
morphed into "first off"?

Peter Adams


On Apr 19, 2009, at 8:20 AM, Craig Hancock wrote:

> Scott,
>  It has been called "meta-discourse", discourse about the text as a
> text. It orients the reader to the text itself (rather than the
> subject.) My problem with "first of all" is that it tends to be used
> mechanically.
>  I had a handful of students coming out of the same English as a  
> Second
> language program in a New York city high school who used the term
> "firstable". I thought that was conceptually interesting. Not
> everything is able to be first.
>  Does being first mean most important? Is it background necessary  
> before
> understanding the rest? A preliminary orientation? An arbitrary
> starting point? I usually find it productive to ask those questions.
>
> Craig
>
>>
>
>
> List,
>>
>> What would you call and how would you explain "First of all" (and  
>> similar
>> constructions) as a sentence opener marking the relationship of the
>> following sentence with a previous statement?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Scott Woods
>>
>>
>>
>>
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