Thanks for the indents, Brad. They do make the "back-and-forth" more legible for me.
I should probably clarify, though, my question was based this whole series of threads, and not to the quoted passage specifically. I would have started a new thread,but i thought that some list members might not want to see further proliferation of threads on this set of issues. I should have at least deleted the quoted passage; sorry if that was confusing!
Cheers,
BRian
Brian O'Sullivan, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of English
Director of the Writing Center
St. Mary’s College of Maryland
Montgomery Hall 50
18952 E. Fisher Rd.
St. Mary’s City, Maryland
20686
240-895-4242
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of Brad Johnston
Sent: Mon 2/18/2008 8:58 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Passion & the past perfect
Sure, Brian, I will explain my "passion", as you put it, in due course.
Reading your paragraph, I wonder if you re-read Craig's item below or did you just assume you already read it. It is a back-and-forth between him and me. I would have made it clear except that I was roundly criticized for using more than one type-face, as the list does not consider it "conventional".
I have indented my replies and "out-dented" his comments, below. That may make it make more sense and it may make a mess of it.
That will cock a snoot at the guy who doesn't want different typefaces.
.cheers.brad.18feb08.
"O'Sullivan, Brian P" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Brad, I've been quietly following these discussions about the
past perfect, and I've been wondering--why are you so passionate
about this issue? You seem to have a personal, emotional stake;
am I right about that? For example, did you have a teacher who
drilled you mercilessly on what you now believe to be fallacious
rules about tense and aspect? Of course, I have no particular
right to ask you this, and you have no obligation to respond;
however, if you do choose to respond, it might help many list members
understand where you're coming from, and it might even
illustrate the problems, which others have alluded to, with focusing on
"correctness" in the teaching of grammar.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Brad,
I am absolutely baffled why you believe "It was like the
revival of an old melodrama that I had seen long ago with
childish awe" is not correct.
Tell me how you feel about, "It was like the revival of an old
melodrama that I saw long ago with childish awe", "saw" being
the past tense of "to see". He saw it long ago.
The other point I would like to make is that people don't put
"had" in front of past tense verbs.
They put 'had' in front of words that are, in context, past
tense verbs, as in this item from today's newspaper, describing
an accident scene: "He said his son (had) told him that he was
going to the race with his cousin".
"Had" is followed by a past participle, which is identical
with the past tense form for all regular verbs.
That's true, as with "told" above, which is why I say
they put 'had' in front of past tense verbs. In the quote,
"told" is a past tense verb.
"He walked through fields he (had) walked as a child" is
perfectly well formed ...
without the 'had'.
If you are correcting verb phrases like that, then you are
deeply mistaken. I think writing teachers, like doctors,
should "first do no harm."
Agreed.
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