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Subject:
From:
"Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:35:02 -0500
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Just to add a few comments of notes:

(1)	There is a theological and social issue underlying the KJV's
consistency in use of 'you/ye' as a plural. As early as the Middle 
	English period, clergy would sometimes make a point of using
'thou' to
	people
	of high social status (instead of the increasingly-common
'polite ye')
	as a way of making the point that the deity doesn't recognize
social
	rank. This was part of the motivation behind George Fox's
insistence
	on maintaining thou vs. ye as a singular/plural distinction, and

	hence the attempt at continuing the practice among the Quakers.
The
	members of the KJV committee were not just reflecting the
practice
	of an earlier generation, they were choosing a position that
already
	had social implications. The choice could be supported, of
course,
	by appeal to the original languages of the texts, which had more
	specific subject/verb agreement markers than then-contemporary
	English did, and which used them more consistently.

(2)	I'll need to dig up the reference for this, but the 'thou'-forms
were
	pretty much out of use in southern British English by around
1700.

(3)	I've been doing a fair amount of research on this since it has
bearing
	on a project I'm working on, and I've found no reference thus
far to 
	anyone using 'you' as a plural and 'ye' as a singular, or vice
versa.
	What does happen is that the old case distinction originally 
	represented by you vs. ye breaks down, with only one form being
used.
	Something similar happened in some Quaker communities,
apparently,
	with thou/thee -- it ended up just being 'thee' most of the
time.

(4)	The idea of using 'I' at the beginning of the sentence and 'me'
every-
	where else, regardless of ideas of grammatical structure, is by
no 
	means new. If I remember correctly, you can find plenty of
examples of
	'case anomalies' in Old English, especially in spots where a
noun is 
	separated by several words from what it's supposed to match.


Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University.

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