Lynn Berk's book is one of the finest functional, discourse-oriented
college English grammar texts I've ever seen.  I've never used it with
an undergrad class, though, because its sophistication is a level or two
above the knowledge my undergrads have typically demonstrated.

I wonder if Scott might have meant to write "present progressive" rather
than "present perfect".  The perfect rarely expresses incomplete action.
If there is anything pervasively perfect, it's completedness.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathleen M. Ward
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 12:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 'Present perfect' was ATEG Digest - 14 Sep 2007 to 15 Sep
2007 (#2007-111)

I have always liked Lynn Berk's "take" on the present perfect, as put  
forth in _English Syntax_.  I have used it shamelessly when I teach  
the grammar course.  She describes the various uses of the perfect:

1.  An action or series of action began in the past and continues to  
(or through) the present moment.

	Horatia has developed many new uses for parsnips.  (she's done
it in  
the past and may continue to do so.)

2.  An event is technically over but has "current relevance."

	Horatia has dropped the pan of parsnips.  (and they are all over
the  
floor)

	I think this would cover the "Sir, I've finished" usage

3.  The "experiential perfect"  in which the subject has had  (or has  
not had) an experience in the past that leads up to the present,  
especially in questions in negatives.

	I haven't tried Horatia's parsnip preserves.

4.  The "hot news" perfect, often with an exclamation mark, or in  
headlines.  This has to be something in the very recent past.

	Horatia has been fired!

	This might also apply to the "Sir, I've finished" usage--I
suppose  
depending on the tone of voice.

I have always found _English Syntax_ very good as a reference for  
uses of various forms; as a textbook it's more problematic.

Kathleen Ward
UC Davis



On Sep 18, 2007, at 6:10 AM, Ronald Sheen wrote:

> Scott writes:
>
> Unless the linguist's assumption is that the speaker are not using  
> these past /perfect tense
> expressions consciously. I would teach present perfect as indicating
> continuing or repeated or incomplete action..
>
> But how about 'Sir, I've finished.'?
>
> and
>
> how about the essential semantic feature of 'relevance to the  
> present moment' as in the above and which explains the difference  
> between the simple past in 'When I was a boy, I visited.France,  
> Germany and Spain.' and the present perfect in 'So far, I have  
> visited France, Germany and Spain.'
>
> I'll explore this issue more when I give a summary of the responses  
> to my 20 sentences.
>
> Ron Sheen
>
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