Professor Grant--
I see "due to" as a slang version for "because of." I can say the book is due on June 1st or overdue on June 2nd. I have never used the phrase "due to" (except to disparage it) nor did I ever hear it in my home: my parents were sticklers for correct English at all times and in all situations even casual ones. Oddly enough, the question did not arise in any of my undergraduate or graduate classes that I took or taught, except once in an ESOL class. I ignored it there because the Caucasian students were speaking in almost an "Amos and Andy" dialect that I considered more objectionable than a simple "due to" usage. Yes, I reported the situation to the principal and the school board (The principal did not see any problem with the dialect being taught). As a result, I was no longer referred by the school board; fortunately, many principals liked the idea of a teacher certified across the board in all academic subjects and called me directly.
---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 6 messages totaling 2781 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective (4)
> 2. 'Due' as an Adjective
> 3. College English Association and ATEG Conferences
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 06:07:03 +0000
> From: Larry Barkley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Thank you, everyone, for your observations, thoughts, comments, examples. I will share your posts with my colleague and give him a chance to consider your insights.
>
> I will let y'all know who has to buy lunch.
>
> Best,
> Larry
> ________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Stahlke, Herbert [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 7:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Craig,
>
> I’m encouraged by your willingness to teach prototypes. I’ve done it in grammar classes, and some students grasped it quickly while others had trouble with the squishiness of prototypes. As to your examples, for any word, there is a range of meanings with a corresponding range of grammatical structures. This fact has long been the bane of judgments of grammaticality, raising doubts about whether such judgments are worth much. Granted that “closed” can be modified, when applied to Ontario Provincial Highway 6 on the Bruce Peninsula, near where we spend much of the summer, “closed” in the winter tends to be binary.
>
> Herb
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hancock, Craig G
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 9:38 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
>
> Herb,
>
> I think we can say that something is "partly" or "partially" closed. (window, door, bridge.) My university sometimes "partially closes" and is therefore "partially closed" as a result. (They cancel classes but keep the offices open.) "I didn't see who actually fired the shot because the door was partially closed." We can use "very" before open in some contexts ("He had a very open personality"), but it seems awkward to me in others. ("The window was very open" *?) I think we would probably say "wide open."
>
> You could explain it also as a question of "construal." Someone closed the port, but for a boat approaching from sea, that may be irrelevant. The child who wants to know if he has a snow day doesn't care who closed the school. And, of course, the TV station will give a list of "school closings," which construes the whole action as a "thing." We also have "the close of the show" as an option.
>
> I vote for teaching about prototypes early and often. We do a terrible job with parts of speech in our schools. Students memorize definitions that are close to worthless in application. Certainly, we should teach that the boundaries are not rigid or fixed and that words shift category routinely. Students recognize prototypes for things like furniture or fruit. My experience has been that they enjoy looking at language that way, not least of all because it seems to fit.
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig
>
> ________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Stahlke, Herbert <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 8:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> One of the standard tests for copula+predicate adjective is whether the adjective allows an adverbial modifier. Since “closed” is not gradable, It doesn’t allow “very” or other intensifiers that would show it to be an adjective. The present tense verb suggests a predicate adjective interpretation since “by order of the magistrate” works better than “by the magistrate.” “By order of…” is not an agent phrase and suggests that “closed” here is an adjective. With past tense, “The roads and ports were closed by the magistrate” works as a passive.” We can also have parallel structures, like “During the winter, the roads on the Bruce Peninsula are closed more often than they’re open,” where the parallel between “closed” and “open” suggests that “closed” is an adjective. Using “opened” in the same sentence sounds decidedly odd, since we have a clear morphological distinction between adjective and participle in “open/opened,” which is not the case with “closed.”
>
> On your spin-off question, there is certainly a close relationship between the two. The copular predicate construction has historically been a pathway from verb to adjective, and the example you posted about is a good illustration of the close relationship.
>
> Perhaps the most important upshot of this topic is the recognition that what we call “parts of speech” are, in fact, not discrete categories but rather represent prototypes. The prototypical verb is a transitive, with its agentive subject and a direct object. This type of verb, like “hit,” converts easily into the passive. Stative verbs like “have” do not generally allow passives, hence the oddity of “A good time was had by all,” and stative adjectives, like “tall” do not allow imperatives or progressives. You can say “She is tall,” but not “Be tall” or “She is being tall.” With an active adjective like “kind,” those are both possible: “Be kind!” “She’s being kind.”
>
> I’m not sure I’d spend a lot of time in a writing class explaining prototype theory as it applies to parts of speech even though the concept is useful in answering your question.
>
> Herb
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larry Barkley
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 3:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Good Afternoon, a colleague and I are debating whether the following sentence exhibits a passive construction or a copular/linking verb and a predicate adjective:
>
> The roads and ports are closed due to the weather conditions.
>
> Observations are (1) the structure is passive, merely missing/excluding the prepositional phrase that would house the actor, e.g. "The roads and ports are closed by the magistrate due to the weather conditions"; (2) the sentence is simply one which exhibits a copular/linking verb, "is," and a predicate adjective, "closed."
>
> But I also have a spin-off question: can both structures exist simultaneously? Is the nature of passive voice to exhibit a copular/linking verb with a predicate adjective?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
> Larry
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 07:14:30 -0500
> From: "Prof. Richard Grant WAU" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: 'Due' as an Adjective
>
> Scott,
>
>
>
> How long you have believed and taught something has no bearing on its veracity, but knowing why you believe it interests me. I understand how ‘due’ can function as an adjective, but how do you see ‘due to . . . ‘ functioning? I'd like to learn from your experience and perspective.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Catledge
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:03 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 11 Feb 2015 to 14 Feb 2015 (#2015-13)
>
>
>
> I find the following wording very poor: the wording "The closure of the road and ports is due to...." avoids the awkward passive and copular verb. Many of you may disagree with me but "due" will always an adjective to me--and that is what I have taught in English and ESOL composition for the last half century.
>
> Scott Catledge
>
> ---- ATEG automatic digest system < <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > There are 3 messages totaling 703 lines in this issue.
>
> >
>
> > Topics of the day:
>
> >
>
> > 1. Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective (3)
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> > <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:48:34 +0000
>
> > From: Larry Barkley < <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]>
>
> > Subject: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> >
>
> > Good Afternoon, a colleague and I are debating whether the following sentence exhibits a passive construction or a copular/linking verb and a predicate adjective:
>
> >
>
> > The roads and ports are closed due to the weather conditions.
>
> >
>
> > Observations are (1) the structure is passive, merely missing/excluding the prepositional phrase that would house the actor, e.g. "The roads and ports are closed by the magistrate due to the weather conditions"; (2) the sentence is simply one which exhibits a copular/linking verb, "is," and a predicate adjective, "closed."
>
> >
>
> > But I also have a spin-off question: can both structures exist simultaneously? Is the nature of passive voice to exhibit a copular/linking verb with a predicate adjective?
>
> >
>
> > Thank you.
>
> >
>
> > Best,
>
> > Larry
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> > <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 01:59:57 +0000
>
> > From: "Stahlke, Herbert" < <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]>
>
> > Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> >
>
> > One of the standard tests for copula+predicate adjective is whether the adjective allows an adverbial modifier. Since "closed" is not gradable, It doesn't allow "very" or other intensifiers that would show it to be an adjective. The present tense verb suggests a predicate adjective interpretation since "by order of the magistrate" works better than "by the magistrate." "By order of..." is not an agent phrase and suggests that "closed" here is an adjective. With past tense, "The roads and ports were closed by the magistrate" works as a passive." We can also have parallel structures, like "During the winter, the roads on the Bruce Peninsula are closed more often than they're open," where the parallel between "closed" and "open" suggests that "closed" is an adjective. Using "opened" in the same sentence sounds decidedly odd, since we have a clear morphological distinction between adjective and participle in "open/opened," which is not the case with "closed."
>
> >
>
> > On your spin-off question, there is certainly a close relationship between the two. The copular predicate construction has historically been a pathway from verb to adjective, and the example you posted about is a good illustration of the close relationship.
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps the most important upshot of this topic is the recognition that what we call "parts of speech" are, in fact, not discrete categories but rather represent prototypes. The prototypical verb is a transitive, with its agentive subject and a direct object. This type of verb, like "hit," converts easily into the passive. Stative verbs like "have" do not generally allow passives, hence the oddity of "A good time was had by all," and stative adjectives, like "tall" do not allow imperatives or progressives. You can say "She is tall," but not "Be tall" or "She is being tall." With an active adjective like "kind," those are both possible: "Be kind!" "She's being kind."
>
> >
>
> > I'm not sure I'd spend a lot of time in a writing class explaining prototype theory as it applies to parts of speech even though the concept is useful in answering your question.
>
> >
>
> > Herb
>
> >
>
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]> mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larry Barkley
>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 3:49 PM
>
> > To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
>
> > Subject: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> >
>
> > Good Afternoon, a colleague and I are debating whether the following sentence exhibits a passive construction or a copular/linking verb and a predicate adjective:
>
> >
>
> > The roads and ports are closed due to the weather conditions.
>
> >
>
> > Observations are (1) the structure is passive, merely missing/excluding the prepositional phrase that would house the actor, e.g. "The roads and ports are closed by the magistrate due to the weather conditions"; (2) the sentence is simply one which exhibits a copular/linking verb, "is," and a predicate adjective, "closed."
>
> >
>
> > But I also have a spin-off question: can both structures exist simultaneously? Is the nature of passive voice to exhibit a copular/linking verb with a predicate adjective?
>
> >
>
> > Thank you.
>
> >
>
> > Best,
>
> > Larry
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> > <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 02:38:17 +0000
>
> > From: "Hancock, Craig G" < <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]>
>
> > Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> >
>
> > Herb,
>
> >
>
> > I think we can say that something is "partly" or "partially" closed. (window, door, bridge.) My university sometimes "partially closes" and is therefore "partially closed" as a result. (They cancel classes but keep the offices open.) "I didn't see who actually fired the shot because the door was partially closed." We can use "very" before open in some contexts ("He had a very open personality"), but it seems awkward to me in others. ("The window was very open" *?) I think we would probably say "wide open."
>
> >
>
> > You could explain it also as a question of "construal." Someone closed the port, but for a boat approaching from sea, that may be irrelevant. The child who wants to know if he has a snow day doesn't care who closed the school. And, of course, the TV station will give a list of "school closings," which construes the whole action as a "thing." We also have "the close of the show" as an option.
>
> >
>
> > I vote for teaching about prototypes early and often. We do a terrible job with parts of speech in our schools. Students memorize definitions that are close to worthless in application. Certainly, we should teach that the boundaries are not rigid or fixed and that words shift category routinely. Students recognize prototypes for things like furniture or fruit. My experience has been that they enjoy looking at language that way, not least of all because it seems to fit.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Craig
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar < <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Stahlke, Herbert < <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]>
>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 8:59 PM
>
> > To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
>
> > Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> >
>
> > One of the standard tests for copula+predicate adjective is whether the adjective allows an adverbial modifier. Since “closed” is not gradable, It doesn’t allow “very” or other intensifiers that would show it to be an adjective. The present tense verb suggests a predicate adjective interpretation since “by order of the magistrate” works better than “by the magistrate.” “By order of…” is not an agent phrase and suggests that “closed” here is an adjective. With past tense, “The roads and ports were closed by the magistrate” works as a passive.” We can also have parallel structures, like “During the winter, the roads on the Bruce Peninsula are closed more often than they’re open,” where the parallel between “closed” and “open” suggests that “closed” is an adjective. Using “opened” in the same sentence sounds decidedly odd, since we have a clear morphological distinction between adjective and participle in “open/opened,” which is not the case with “closed.”
>
> >
>
> > On your spin-off question, there is certainly a close relationship between the two. The copular predicate construction has historically been a pathway from verb to adjective, and the example you posted about is a good illustration of the close relationship.
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps the most important upshot of this topic is the recognition that what we call “parts of speech” are, in fact, not discrete categories but rather represent prototypes. The prototypical verb is a transitive, with its agentive subject and a direct object. This type of verb, like “hit,” converts easily into the passive. Stative verbs like “have” do not generally allow passives, hence the oddity of “A good time was had by all,” and stative adjectives, like “tall” do not allow imperatives or progressives. You can say “She is tall,” but not “Be tall” or “She is being tall.” With an active adjective like “kind,” those are both possible: “Be kind!” “She’s being kind.”
>
> >
>
> > I’m not sure I’d spend a lot of time in a writing class explaining prototype theory as it applies to parts of speech even though the concept is useful in answering your question.
>
> >
>
> > Herb
>
> >
>
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]> mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larry Barkley
>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 3:49 PM
>
> > To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]
>
> > Subject: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> >
>
> > Good Afternoon, a colleague and I are debating whether the following sentence exhibits a passive construction or a copular/linking verb and a predicate adjective:
>
> >
>
> > The roads and ports are closed due to the weather conditions.
>
> >
>
> > Observations are (1) the structure is passive, merely missing/excluding the prepositional phrase that would house the actor, e.g. "The roads and ports are closed by the magistrate due to the weather conditions"; (2) the sentence is simply one which exhibits a copular/linking verb, "is," and a predicate adjective, "closed."
>
> >
>
> > But I also have a spin-off question: can both structures exist simultaneously? Is the nature of passive voice to exhibit a copular/linking verb with a predicate adjective?
>
> >
>
> > Thank you.
>
> >
>
> > Best,
>
> > Larry
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> > <http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > End of ATEG Digest - 11 Feb 2015 to 14 Feb 2015 (#2015-13)
>
> > **********************************************************
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/> http://ateg.org/
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:13:13 +0000
> From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Herb,
> There have been plenty of binary closings in the northeast lately. It's a point well made. Today we have an opposite day-classes are on, but offices are closed (Presidents' Day). I just saw Selma, a clear reminder that things can be open to some, closed to others.
> There is, of course, a cognitive dimension. "Locked" seems binary. But so does "dead," which seems clearly an adjective. But "how dead is it" makes sense when the meaning is more metaphoric, as in "The bill was dead on arrival."
> "Broken" may be binary for something like a watch, but less so for a bone. (Badly broken. Slightly sprained. Partially torn.)
> I think it helps to have examples that seem more like true adjectives: annoyed (annoying), bothered (bothering), frustrated (frustrating). Charming and enchanted and depressed. You can actually get students to put them on a continuum: If you were a dictionary maker, which ones would you list as adjectives? Of course, as a teacher, you need to be comfortable in a more complex world. But you can also have a few dictionaries around to see how the decisions were made by other people with the same task at hand.
> I can see someone saying "Be tall," maybe because I spent a good part of my adolescence slouching. Why is it so much easier to say "Be strong?" I guess the idea of control is part of it. I grew seven inches in one year and had to get used to being tall.
>
> Craig
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stahlke, Herbert
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 10:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Craig,
>
> I'm encouraged by your willingness to teach prototypes. I've done it in grammar classes, and some students grasped it quickly while others had trouble with the squishiness of prototypes. As to your examples, for any word, there is a range of meanings with a corresponding range of grammatical structures. This fact has long been the bane of judgments of grammaticality, raising doubts about whether such judgments are worth much. Granted that "closed" can be modified, when applied to Ontario Provincial Highway 6 on the Bruce Peninsula, near where we spend much of the summer, "closed" in the winter tends to be binary.
>
> Herb
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hancock, Craig G
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 9:38 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
>
> Herb,
>
> I think we can say that something is "partly" or "partially" closed. (window, door, bridge.) My university sometimes "partially closes" and is therefore "partially closed" as a result. (They cancel classes but keep the offices open.) "I didn't see who actually fired the shot because the door was partially closed." We can use "very" before open in some contexts ("He had a very open personality"), but it seems awkward to me in others. ("The window was very open" *?) I think we would probably say "wide open."
>
> You could explain it also as a question of "construal." Someone closed the port, but for a boat approaching from sea, that may be irrelevant. The child who wants to know if he has a snow day doesn't care who closed the school. And, of course, the TV station will give a list of "school closings," which construes the whole action as a "thing." We also have "the close of the show" as an option.
>
> I vote for teaching about prototypes early and often. We do a terrible job with parts of speech in our schools. Students memorize definitions that are close to worthless in application. Certainly, we should teach that the boundaries are not rigid or fixed and that words shift category routinely. Students recognize prototypes for things like furniture or fruit. My experience has been that they enjoy looking at language that way, not least of all because it seems to fit.
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig
>
> ________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of Stahlke, Herbert <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 8:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> One of the standard tests for copula+predicate adjective is whether the adjective allows an adverbial modifier. Since "closed" is not gradable, It doesn't allow "very" or other intensifiers that would show it to be an adjective. The present tense verb suggests a predicate adjective interpretation since "by order of the magistrate" works better than "by the magistrate." "By order of..." is not an agent phrase and suggests that "closed" here is an adjective. With past tense, "The roads and ports were closed by the magistrate" works as a passive." We can also have parallel structures, like "During the winter, the roads on the Bruce Peninsula are closed more often than they're open," where the parallel between "closed" and "open" suggests that "closed" is an adjective. Using "opened" in the same sentence sounds decidedly odd, since we have a clear morphological distinction between adjective and participle in "open/opened," which is not the case with "closed."
>
> On your spin-off question, there is certainly a close relationship between the two. The copular predicate construction has historically been a pathway from verb to adjective, and the example you posted about is a good illustration of the close relationship.
>
> Perhaps the most important upshot of this topic is the recognition that what we call "parts of speech" are, in fact, not discrete categories but rather represent prototypes. The prototypical verb is a transitive, with its agentive subject and a direct object. This type of verb, like "hit," converts easily into the passive. Stative verbs like "have" do not generally allow passives, hence the oddity of "A good time was had by all," and stative adjectives, like "tall" do not allow imperatives or progressives. You can say "She is tall," but not "Be tall" or "She is being tall." With an active adjective like "kind," those are both possible: "Be kind!" "She's being kind."
>
> I'm not sure I'd spend a lot of time in a writing class explaining prototype theory as it applies to parts of speech even though the concept is useful in answering your question.
>
> Herb
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Larry Barkley
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 3:49 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Good Afternoon, a colleague and I are debating whether the following sentence exhibits a passive construction or a copular/linking verb and a predicate adjective:
>
> The roads and ports are closed due to the weather conditions.
>
> Observations are (1) the structure is passive, merely missing/excluding the prepositional phrase that would house the actor, e.g. "The roads and ports are closed by the magistrate due to the weather conditions"; (2) the sentence is simply one which exhibits a copular/linking verb, "is," and a predicate adjective, "closed."
>
> But I also have a spin-off question: can both structures exist simultaneously? Is the nature of passive voice to exhibit a copular/linking verb with a predicate adjective?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Best,
> Larry
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 15:19:39 -0500
> From: Linda Comerford <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Changing subjects, am I writing to the correct people about what I believe is an upcoming grammar conference in Indianapolis at the end of March? I’m interested in both attending it as well as providing some guidance about Indy as I live there.
>
>
>
> If anyone knows anything about this and can provide some details, I’d appreciate it.
>
>
>
> Linda Comerford
> Cell: 317.696.4444
>
> Office and Fax: 317.786.6404
> [log in to unmask]
> www.comerfordconsulting.com <http://www.comerfordconsulting.com/>
>
>
>
> From: Linda Di Desidero [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:32 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
>
>
> Just two more cents toward Herb's suggestion about stativity, as that clearly seems to be the key to this question:
>
>
>
> We think of something being closed as an adjective that describes the current state or condition of the thing. We do not think of it as something that has happened or been done to the thing. Even when we talk of something as partially closed, we are referring to the state of the object, not to what has been done to the object. For that reason, viewing "X is closed" as passive seems odd. Better to view it as stative/descriptive.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, if you add an agent, the passive view emerges:
>
>
>
> The window is closed by me every Wednesday at 2 pm.
>
>
>
> In this case, I am not referring to the state of the window so much as the action that is carried out on it.
>
>
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Herb,
>
> I think we can say that something is "partly" or "partially" closed. (window, door, bridge.) My university sometimes "partially closes" and is therefore "partially closed" as a result. (They cancel classes but keep the offices open.) "I didn't see who actually fired the shot because the door was partially closed." We can use "very" before open in some contexts ("He had a very open personality"), but it seems awkward to me in others. ("The window was very open" *?) I think we would probably say "wide open."
>
> You could explain it also as a question of "construal." Someone closed the port, but for a boat approaching from sea, that may be irrelevant. The child who wants to know if he has a snow day doesn't care who closed the school. And, of course, the TV station will give a list of "school closings," which construes the whole action as a "thing." We also have "the close of the show" as an option.
>
> I vote for teaching about prototypes early and often. We do a terrible job with parts of speech in our schools. Students memorize definitions that are close to worthless in application. Certainly, we should teach that the boundaries are not rigid or fixed and that words shift category routinely. Students recognize prototypes for things like furniture or fruit. My experience has been that they enjoy looking at language that way, not least of all because it seems to fit.
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig
>
> _____
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 21:40:40 +0000
> From: Sharon B Saylors <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: College English Association and ATEG Conferences
>
> Linda,
> The College English Association is having its national meeting in Indianapolis, your home town, March 26-28, 2015. On Saturday March 28, 12 of us will be presenting as part of the new "Grammar Strand." At least 4 of us are ATEG members! This promises to be a wonderful conference! I would appreciate any information you have about Indianapolis.
> Here's another conference not to be missed. Our own ATEG 26th Annual Conference is coming up on July 24-25 at Prince George's Community College, Largo MD. We are putting together a 2-day Pre-Conference Workshop and have another field trip in the works. For more information, check out our new ATEG website at: http://ateg.weebly.com/
> Sherry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Comerford
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 3:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Changing subjects, am I writing to the correct people about what I believe is an upcoming grammar conference in Indianapolis at the end of March? I’m interested in both attending it as well as providing some guidance about Indy as I live there.
>
>
>
> If anyone knows anything about this and can provide some details, I’d appreciate it.
>
>
>
> Linda Comerford
> Cell: 317.696.4444
>
> Office and Fax: 317.786.6404
> [log in to unmask]
> www.comerfordconsulting.com <http://www.comerfordconsulting.com/>
>
>
>
> From: Linda Di Desidero [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:32 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
>
>
> Just two more cents toward Herb's suggestion about stativity, as that clearly seems to be the key to this question:
>
>
>
> We think of something being closed as an adjective that describes the current state or condition of the thing. We do not think of it as something that has happened or been done to the thing. Even when we talk of something as partially closed, we are referring to the state of the object, not to what has been done to the object. For that reason, viewing "X is closed" as passive seems odd. Better to view it as stative/descriptive.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, if you add an agent, the passive view emerges:
>
>
>
> The window is closed by me every Wednesday at 2 pm.
>
>
>
> In this case, I am not referring to the state of the window so much as the action that is carried out on it.
>
>
>
> Linda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Herb,
>
> I think we can say that something is "partly" or "partially" closed. (window, door, bridge.) My university sometimes "partially closes" and is therefore "partially closed" as a result. (They cancel classes but keep the offices open.) "I didn't see who actually fired the shot because the door was partially closed." We can use "very" before open in some contexts ("He had a very open personality"), but it seems awkward to me in others. ("The window was very open" *?) I think we would probably say "wide open."
>
> You could explain it also as a question of "construal." Someone closed the port, but for a boat approaching from sea, that may be irrelevant. The child who wants to know if he has a snow day doesn't care who closed the school. And, of course, the TV station will give a list of "school closings," which construes the whole action as a "thing." We also have "the close of the show" as an option.
>
> I vote for teaching about prototypes early and often. We do a terrible job with parts of speech in our schools. Students memorize definitions that are close to worthless in application. Certainly, we should teach that the boundaries are not rigid or fixed and that words shift category routinely. Students recognize prototypes for things like furniture or fruit. My experience has been that they enjoy looking at language that way, not least of all because it seems to fit.
>
>
>
>
>
> Craig
>
> _____
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any file(s) transmitted with it, is intended for the exclusive use by the person(s) mentioned above as recipient(s). This e-mail may contain confidential information and/or information protected by intellectual property rights or other rights. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete the original and any copies of this e-mail and any printouts immediately from your system and destroy all copies of it.
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 16:48:04 -0500
> From: Linda Di Desidero <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
>
> Hi Linda.
>
> The conference that is in Indianapolis at the end of March is that of the
> College English Association (26-28 March at the Hyatt Regency)
>
> There will be four panels in Grammar/Linguistics at the conference; several
> of these speakers are members of ATEG. (This is a new interest group at CEA)
>
> You can preview the program at this link http://www.cea-web.org/
>
> Let me know when you can be there and we'll set up a grammar group for
> dinner (maybe Thursday eve?)
>
> Look forward to meeting you!
>
> Linda Di Desidero
>
>
>
> Linda Di Desidero, PhD
>
> Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
>
> Marine Corps University
>
> Gray Research Center, Room 122
>
> Quantico, Virginia 22134
>
> 703-784-4401
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 3:19 PM, Linda Comerford <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Changing subjects, am I writing to the correct people about what I believe
> > is an upcoming grammar conference in Indianapolis at the end of March? I’m
> > interested in both attending it as well as providing some guidance about
> > Indy as I live there.
> >
> >
> >
> > If anyone knows anything about this and can provide some details, I’d
> > appreciate it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Linda Comerford
> > Cell: 317.696.4444
> >
> > Office and Fax: 317.786.6404
> > [log in to unmask]
> > www.comerfordconsulting.com <http://www.comerfordconsulting.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Linda Di Desidero [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 8:32 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Passive Voice vs. Copular + Predicate Adjective
> >
> >
> >
> > Just two more cents toward Herb's suggestion about stativity, as that
> > clearly seems to be the key to this question:
> >
> >
> >
> > We think of something being closed as an adjective that describes the
> > current state or condition of the thing. We do not think of it as something
> > that has happened or been done to the thing. Even when we talk of something
> > as partially closed, we are referring to the state of the object, not to
> > what has been done to the object. For that reason, viewing "X is closed" as
> > passive seems odd. Better to view it as stative/descriptive.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the other hand, if you add an agent, the passive view emerges:
> >
> >
> >
> > The window is closed by me every Wednesday at 2 pm.
> >
> >
> >
> > In this case, I am not referring to the state of the window so much as the
> > action that is carried out on it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Linda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Linda Di Desidero, PhD
> >
> > Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
> >
> > Marine Corps University
> >
> > Gray Research Center, Room 122
> >
> > Quantico, Virginia 22134
> >
> > 703-784-4401
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Herb,
> >
> > I think we can say that something is "partly" or "partially" closed.
> > (window, door, bridge.) My university sometimes "partially closes" and is
> > therefore "partially closed" as a result. (They cancel classes but keep the
> > offices open.) "I didn't see who actually fired the shot because the door
> > was partially closed." We can use "very" before open in some contexts ("He
> > had a very open personality"), but it seems awkward to me in others. ("The
> > window was very open" *?) I think we would probably say "wide open."
> >
> > You could explain it also as a question of "construal." Someone closed
> > the port, but for a boat approaching from sea, that may be irrelevant. The
> > child who wants to know if he has a snow day doesn't care who closed the
> > school. And, of course, the TV station will give a list of "school
> > closings," which construes the whole action as a "thing." We also have "the
> > close of the show" as an option.
> >
> > I vote for teaching about prototypes early and often. We do a terrible
> > job with parts of speech in our schools. Students memorize definitions that
> > are close to worthless in application. Certainly, we should teach that the
> > boundaries are not rigid or fixed and that words shift category routinely.
> > Students recognize prototypes for things like furniture or fruit. My
> > experience has been that they enjoy looking at language that way, not least
> > of all because it seems to fit.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> > at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 15 Feb 2015 to 16 Feb 2015 (#2015-15)
> **********************************************************
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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