Rebecca,

I'm really sorry to seem so obtuse, but I just don't catch on.  If you
define a system or a machine or anything exclusively in terms of its parts
and vice versa, I think you necessarily leave unexplained what the system,
machine, thing is for, what it does.  If grammarians can't explain what
sentences are for, what they do that other strings of words don't do, why
they need to have subjects and finite verbs instead of (say) prepositions
and noun phrases, no wonder people find the subject confusing!

David

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Rebecca S. Wheeler wrote:

> Actually David, what about another vantage on defining a sentence by its
> grammatical traits:  a sentence is a grammatical structure defined in terms of
> characteristics and constituents of that structure. In this way, it's not
> circular, but internally consistent within the system.
> 
> This is indeed a clear, consistent account of a grammatical phenomenon.
> 
> rebecca
> 
> David D Mulroy wrote:
> 
> > Of course not!  Still, if a sentence is a grammatical term defined
> > exclusively by other grammatical terms, I don't see how you can avoid
> > circularity in your rigorous explanations of linguistic practice.  The
> > approach seems to preclude the possibility of giving a clear, consistent
> > account of the point of creating sentences in the first place, just like
> > the approach of an imaginary auto mechanic who defines the function of
> > every part of a car's engine in exclusively in terms of its other parts.
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Johanna Rubba wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, David. But I hope you don't lump me in with those people who
> > > don't believe in teaching about what sentences are for .... !!!
> > >
> > > Johanna
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Johanna Rubba   Assistant Professor, Linguistics
> > > English Department, California Polytechnic State University
> > > One Grand Avenue  • San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
> > > Tel. (805)-756-2184  •  Fax: (805)-756-6374 • Dept. Phone.  756-259
> > > • E-mail: [log in to unmask] •  Home page: http://www.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
> > >                                        **
> > > "Understanding is a lot like sex; it's got a practical purpose,
> > > but that's not why people do it normally"  -            Frank  Oppenheimer
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> 
> --
> *******************************************
> Rebecca S. Wheeler, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> Christopher Newport University
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> 
> Editor, Syntax in the Schools
> The Journal of the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar (ATEG), an
> assembly of the NCTE
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> 
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