Ah, the dangers of composing while other messages are being sent. Hacker
obviously added the comment between the third edition and the sixth.
It seems goofy to me, though, to think of "words that come between" as
explaining this. Clearly in "The governor and his press secretary were
shot" the words "and his press secretary" don't just come in between.
And she sidesteps the problem by not putting "as well as" in the list
of prepositions, but using it as an example. Clearly, the question is
whether or not it should be treated as a conjunction.
Is "does not make a singular subject plural" a true description of what
we mean/understand by this? Or is it intended just as a formal rule? At
least Lunsford addresses the awkwardness more directly.
Craig>
Here is a citation from A Writer's Reference (sixth edition) by Diana
> Hacker: "Make the verb agree with its subject, not with words that come
> between...Phrases beginning with the prepositions as well as, in addition
> to, accompanied by, together with, and along with do not make a singular
> subject plural" (166). Hacker provides the following example:
> The governor as well as his press secretary was shot.
>
>
> --- On Mon, 6/16/08, Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:10 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael,
>
> You are saying that you disagree with Strunk and White (quoted by Carol
> below). Are there equivalent authorities you can cite? I am not saying
> “authorities” are ipso facto right (for example, you can still find
> textbooks that pronounce it ungrammatical to end a sentence with a
> preposition), but in matters like this there is often an agreed upon
> consensus.
>
> Dick
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Keith Pen Ultimate
> Rare Books
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 11:30 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
>
> Dick et al
>
>
>
> Ask yourself why "his speech as well as his manners is objectionable"
> doesn't sound right. In that sentence I suspect that "as well as his
> manners" serves as a delayed, emphatic additional subject--something akin
> to: also especially his manners!--and is therefore and thereby
> plural. Remember, if the subject is plural, the verb should be
> as well. Many subjects succeeded by "as well as" are intended
> indeed to be singular. The subject/example you provided, in most
> contexts, emphatically is NOT. Grammar, like language and concepts,
> is contextual and objective.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
> -------------- Original message from "Veit, Richard"
> <[log in to unmask]>: --------------
> Thanks, Carol. That is most helpful. Is it is. I knew that intellectually
> but wish it sounded right too. For example, change “manner” to “manners”
> in the Strunk and White example and it doesn’t seem as clear cut: "His
> speech as well as his manners is objectionable."
>
> Dick Veit
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol Morrison
> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 4:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: a subject-verb-agreement question
>
>
>
>
>
> According to Strunk and White in The Elements of Style, "[a] singular
> subject remains singular even if other nouns are connected to it by with,
> as well as, in addition to, except, together with, and no less than (21).
> So I believe that your last example would take the verb "is". Strunk and
> White give the following example: "His speech as well as his manner
> is objectionable" (21).
> I'm not sure if the comma between "society at large" and "as well as"
> changes that in your sentence though.
>
> --- On Sun, 6/15/08, Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Veit, Richard <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: a subject-verb-agreement question
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 3:32 PM
>
>
> A little help, please, with subject/verb agreement in a sentence. These I
> have no trouble with:
>
>
> Good policy will come when society at large is educated about HPV.
> Good policy will come when at-risk individuals are educated about HPV.
> Good policy will come when society at large and at-risk individuals are
> educated about HPV.
>
> And pretty sure about this:
>
>
> Good policy will come when society at large (not just at-risk individuals)
> is educated about HPV.
>
> But what about this one?
>
>
> Good policy will come when society at large, as well as at-risk
> individuals, is/are educated about HPV.
>
> Do the commas make the second phrase an aside so that the verb should
> agree with “society” only (i.e., “is”)? Or do we treat “as well as” as
> equivalent to “and,” making “are” the right choice? I seek your informed
> guidance on the matter. Any specific reference to authority is especially
> welcome.
>
> Dick
> ________________________________
> Richard Veit
> Department of English
> University of North Carolina Wilmington
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV
> list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
> the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV
> list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
> the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
