ATEG Archives

January 2015

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
"Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 28 Jan 2015 18:31:38 +0000
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (1 lines)
For "the truth is, " I got 1,445 entries on COCA. For "The problem is, " 1,244 (about 15% of the total includes a following comma.) The patterns are very similar. Typically, they are sentence opening.



Craig



-----Original Message-----

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 12:45 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: The problem is(,)



In colloquial speech, the construction also allows the-dropping: “Problem is, ….” David Tuggy wrote an article in 1996 (“The thing is is that people talk that way. The question is why?”) that examined potential sources for the construction; if I remember correctly, he had it “inheriting” characteristics from several other extant ones.



— Bill Spruiell



From: John Chorazy <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 12:23 PM

To: "[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

Subject: Re: The problem is(,)



This reminds me of the double "is" construction (ISIS) that​ has become so prevalent, from the President down...



On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

If you do a search on COCA, you come up with 8544 entries, many of them sentence opening. When we have this kind of frequency of use, it's fair to say that it's a construction and may have developed meanings and functions AS A UNIT that are separate from its component syntax. If I write "the problem is Charlie," then the sentence is straightforward. But if I write "The problem is, Charlie is stupid," then "the problem is" can be seen as a thematic opening to a statement about Charlie.  (Similar to Dick's "to my chagrin," or even "unfortunately.")

    I haven't the time to do a full analysis, but there does seem to be a pattern. When "that" is included, no comma. When "that" is left out, the comma is routine.

    Here's an example from Cosmopolitan (the first on the list): "The problem is, if we look at the summer and the trajectory is up, he..."

    This one is from the New York Times: "The problem is, it isn't easy politically to make a 180 degree turn."

    Another from fiction: "The problem is, the murderers have snatched one of our people."

The structure ("the problem is" plus comma as sentence opener) seems common in respectable places.



Craig



----Original Message-----

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Karl Hagen

Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 10:51 AM

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: The problem is(,)



I vote for the comma. My reasoning is, the example uses a bare content clause (i.e., 'that' is omitted) in a circumstance where omitting the subordinator potentially creates confusion. Notice what I did in the previous sentence? I think the comma is even more necessary there, as it's much easier to read "the example" as the complement without the comma. In other words, if I omit the comma there, I risk creating a garden-path sentence.



Using the comma to avoid this misreading is parallel to using one in elliptical constructions:



Alice favors construction grammar; Bob, transformational.



What we really have are two comma rules that conflict, and we need to decide which one dominates (if I can borrow the terminology of Optimality Theory). If we say that the normal no-comma rule takes precedence over the use-commas-for-elliptical-constructions rule, then we're basically saying you cannot omit "that" in this context, which is clearly descriptively wrong. (By the way, does anyone know of an Optimality Theory study of English punctuation rules?)





> On Jan 28, 2015, at 7:19 AM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

>

> My adult ESOL students love the "Dear Abby" advice column, and I came upon this sentence in today's column:

>

>        The problem is, I'm not attracted to him.

>

> Should the comma be there?

>

> Like me, I'm guessing your first response is no, since a comma between a verb and its complement (or object) is nonstandard.

>

> On further thought, I'm not so sure.

>

> There are two ways of reading those words. One is with unstressed "is" and no pause between "is" and "I'm." If the comma is omitted, a reader is likely to assume this reading.

>

> The sentence can also be read, however, with stress on "is" and a pause before "I'm." The case for the comma is:

>

> (1) A writer can't invoke this reading without the comma, and

> (2) This reading is equivalent to "To my chagrin, I'm not attracted to him"--i.e., "The problem is" could be considered adverbial, making the comma appropriate.

>

> What do you think?

>

> Dick Veit,

> emeritus linguistics prof and volunteer ESOL teacher To join or leave 

> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"

> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

>



To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:

     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html

and select "Join or leave the list"



Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/



To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:

     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html

and select "Join or leave the list"



Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/







--

John Chorazy

English III Honors, AP Lit

Advisor, Panther Press

Pequannock Township High School

973.616.6000





Noli Timere

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"



Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/



To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:

     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html

and select "Join or leave the list"



Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/



To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:

     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html

and select "Join or leave the list"



Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/


ATOM RSS1 RSS2