The second talk digest, received today. Brace yourself. Not fun reading.
Brock Haussamen
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 10:14 PM
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Subject: ncte-middle-digest V1 #311
ncte-middle-digest Tuesday, December 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 311
Re: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Re: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Re: [ncte-middle] debate lesson
Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
[ncte-middle] Re: Need:Short story or poem:memory triggered by photo or
object
Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Re: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
[ncte-middle] two questions
Re: [ncte-middle] two questions
[ncte-middle] Newspaper Scavenger Hunt
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 05:47:01 -0500
From: Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
The history of grammar is a bit convoluted, but here are some of the basics.
Grammar was a key part of rhetoric in classical times. Rhetoric was the art
of argumentation and delivery, and grammar at the time basically referred to
the structure of an argument. Since rhetoric was studied by boys from a
particular class and dialect group, there really was no special concern with
correctness issues, other than those that pertained to the art of
argumentation. When written language came on the scene, we began to see
some classification of words. It was Plato and the Sophists (a school of
philosophers and rhetors) who identified a noma as the name of something, or
a noun. Aristotle named conjunctions and the
Stoics (another school of philosophers and rhetors) basically named
everything else. Remember, we're takin' Greek here. Aristotle really got
into classifying things.
The Romans basically copied the Greeks, so things rolled along grammar wise
like that for quite a while. Grammarians were quite valuable human beings,
even though a bunch of them were slaves. But remember, grammarians were
basically interested in word choice, style, voice, mood, junk like that.
Actually by the time the Romans started flexing their muscles, boys who were
literate (and it was almost always just rich boys who got to be literate)
were conjugating verbs, identifying parts of speech, etc. But remember that
Latin is more or less a regular language. It didn't have a lot of outside
influences. And the grammar that was developed, including the rules of
usage, were pretty common sense, because the whole idea of identifying parts
of speech came straight from the Greeks to the Romans.
Latin grammar dominated things through the middle ages. And the glorious
tradtion of just educating boys was merrily clicking along too. But there
started to be a problem. Mostly it was a cultural one. Remember that
language and culture are very closely related. But there weren't any Romans
wandering around anymore. Or if there were, they didn't really act and
think like Romans, and the didn't speak or write like Romans. During the
Renaissance (I know I'm skipping a bunch of centuries here, but this is just
a quick summary.) grammar was a means of honing the mind. Now, remember
they didn't have cognitive psychologists bouncing off university walls back
then. And remember that it was generally rich boys who got to hone their
minds in a formal way, so don't start thinking that grammar today is a good
way to hone students minds. It probably didn't work for too many people
during the Renaissance, even though there were some kind of groovy things
happening, which is why it is considered a renaissance.
Anyway, Latin and Greek were the cool languages down the centuries. After
the civil war in this country a few pin heads decided that writing and
speaking correctly was extremely important. Remember, there was a growing
immigrant population, not to mention all those freed slaves. "REal"
Americans had to set themselves apart from the unwashed, and one of the ways
they did that was through language. Technically, standard english is simply
the dialect of upper middle class educated north eastern white men. Thems
the one who had the money and the power. Thems the ones who got to say that
their way of speaking was right. And they did that. Latin and Greek kind
of fell out of favor in universities, and folks started looking around for
something to replace it. So, another couple of pin heads tried to apply
Latin principles to English grammar. Another couple of pin heads coughed up
things like topic sentences, which don't really exist. And a few others
dreamed up such rules as "never end a sentence with a preposition," which
wasn't a real rule in English ever until a pin head wrote it down and put it
in a book. Then, because it was written in a book, everybody believed it
and started teaching it. Same with topic sentences, by the way. For the
story of that stuff, read _The Place of Grammr in Writing Instruction_
edited by Hunter and Wallace and published by the ever popular
Boynton/Cook/Heinemann, Portsmouth, NH.
Diagramming grew out of parsing, which was an attempt to "scientize"
language studies. Science was a manly thing and therefore better, and so
around the turn of the century people tried to apply scientific principles
to language studies, education in general, and just about every other thing.
But as early as 1906 people were starting to scratch their heads and say
whoa. Franklin Hoyt wrote at that time in the Teachers College Record which
is published by Columbia University, that the study of grammar has about as
much relationship to the study of writing as geography. I think it was in
1957 that NCTE said the whole study of grammar with the expectation that it
would improve writing was totally bogus (well, ncte didn't use the word
bogus, but...). And Janet Emig's landmark study of the writing processes of
12th graders was a wonderful indictment of Warriners and their ilk. It was
around the same time as Emig's study that people in England and New Zealand
were conducting long term studies (two and three years in duration) that
showed in some cases the isolated teaching of grammar actually impeded
growth in writing. In the 1970's Geneva Smitherman, who was one of
linguistics profs at Michigan State (and wonderful!!) wrote Talkin and
Testifyin, based on the Ann Arbor Michigan court case that showed black
english was a true dialect, rule bound and predictable, and those who spoke
black english were not speaking incorrectly.
There are a few nay sayers out there. Martha Kolln is a rhetorical grammar
person who believes the study of grammar should be based on the noun phrase,
but she admits that her theory has never been tested and my personal opinion
is that she's a school grammarian looking for an excuse to do her thing.
So, she calls her thing rhetorical grammar.
This is such a quick tour of the history of grammar that it hardly says some
of the important things like the link between language and culture, and the
ways in which some dialects in this country are less privileged.
Let know if you want the history of the word ain't and want to know why it
ain't cool among the English teacher crowd. I love this story.
Nancy
At 02:44 PM 12/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Here is a question that I have wanted the answer for for awhile: Why
>did teachers find grammar instruction via "the little blue book" and
>diagramming important in the olden days? And,a second question, while
>I'm at it, who came up with this way of teaching the parts of a
>sentence? What articles did they write promoting it? Why was this
>method embraced by every school I have ever been to or heard about?
>(O.K. those were three questions) Diagramming does not teach
>capitalization, punctuation, or spelling--the skills we seem to be
>concerned about on this list. It just teaches sentence construction.
>Was is Kolln? Who came up with the terminology "subject," "predicate,"
>"gerund," etc.? It seems these terms have been around since the
>beginning of time. Are they Greek or Latin? Does any one know the
>answers or can you refer me to a place where I can find them? Maybe a
>college grammar professor? Gracious, do not make me write Dr. Morris!
>I still have nightmares about being made to diagram that impossible
>three-page sentence written by Faulkner.
>
>Ever questioning what I have been taught, what I know, and where it is
>from, and what I teach,
>Jami Denton
>
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875
"The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
culture."
- --Roland Barthes
[log in to unmask]
http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:24:20 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
In a message dated 12/19/0 2:36:23 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>Candace, sorry, but diagramming with the expectation that it will turn
>students into better writers is far from a constructivist perspective.
Didn't say it was! But teaching with expection that our choices of
activities will help the child establish meaning through individual
experience IS a constructivist perspective, and, . . .
> It might help students learn the parts of speech . . .
. . . as most of my 8th-grade students go on to private high schools where
they are expected to walk in the door knowing parts of speech and how to
manipulate them [alas], I would be doing these kids a grave injustice not to
assist them in establishing meaning through a task I KNOW they will face
the
following year. I have found limited experience of diagramming their own
writing helps SOME STUDENTS (I did not say all) not only to know which words
apply to which parts of speech but, most importantly, gives them visual
cueing to form the relationships. By working out their own material,
selected from the grammar areas in which they need practice, they can
experiment with different ways of writing their ideas and quickly discover
the differences between adjectives and adverbs, indirect objects and direct
objects, etc.
Obviously(?!), I am not suggesting that diagramming be used in a vacuum; but
it can be a profoundly helpful tool for visual learners, math-oriented
learners, and ADD/ADHD learners who need a place to hang their grammatical
hat (n.; subj.; dir. obj. . . . ).
I more or less stand by my story (even if I did just discover I typed
'constructionist' in my 1st epistle, instead of 'constructivist! blush!).
Candace Lindquist
Campbell, cA
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:51:36 -0500
From: Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
Oh, shoot! I forgot one really important tidbit in my history of grammar
stuff. At around the turn of the century (the last one, not this one)
colleges and universities decided that writing was a really good thing to
include in the curriculum. So everybody had to take writing. The problem
was, as it is now, they didn't hire enough teachers to do the job, and
writing classes were enormous. Plus, the expectation was that people in
those classes would write scads and scads. So, in order to deal with the
horrendous paper load, teachers looked at correctness issues rather than
content. It was simply the only way to deal with job. And that, folks, is
how the cult of correctness took over the English classroom. Add the
growing immigration and the influx of people from rural areas into the
cities, you have a class system marked not only by economics, but by
language.
That's why today we still have English teachers who help propell the idea
that you are how you speak, and that if you want to succeed in life, you
gotta talk right and write even righter. There are a few voices out there
who say this ain't right and that we should spend our enegies teaching the
snooty masses that the other masses speak perfectly good english and that we
could learn a lot about the vitality of language from them, but even I see
the futility of that argument at this point in our evolution. Still,
threads like this give me the opportunity to chime in and say "I seen" isn't
wrong. And "he ain't got" isn't wrong. So, the next time a student tells
you he seen you in the grocery store, don't cringe. It's not the dialect
of power, but it is right for the dialect the student is using.
Nancy
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875
"The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
culture."
- --Roland Barthes
[log in to unmask]
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http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:20:06 -0500
From: "Jerome Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Dear Candace,
I agree with your perspective. I disagree with Nancy's. In a recent
posting to this site I suggested a must read article on the subject
(published in a highly respected NCTE journal, as the lead article, by the
way) written by Martha Kolln, titled "Closing the Books on Alchemy," in
Volume 32, No. 2, May 1981 issue of College Composition and Communication,
pp. 139-151. Kolln discusses a much quoted sentence from the 1963 NCTE
report, Research in Written Composition, by Richard Braddock, Richard
Lloyd-Jones, and Lowell Schoer, "...the teaching of formal grammar has a
negligible or, because it usually displaces some instruction and practice in
actual composition, even a harmful effect on the improvement of writing.
(pp. 37-38)." I agree with Nancy that "school grammar" is a far cry from the
scientific grammars developed by Benjamin Bloom, Jespersen, Poutsma, James
Sledd, Martin Joos, Kenneth Pike, J. J. Katz, among others whose volumes
line my shelves here at home. Kolln conclusively argues that Braddock, et.
al,'s statement has been injudiciously applied to indicate that formal
grammar (which Kolln well argues is undefined by Braddock) should excised
from the curriculum. Mr. Brock Haussamen opened a world of interesting
scholarly discussion and insight for me with his recent posting to us of the
reference to the NCTE "Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar" at
www.ateg.org and listserve.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html. I agree with Nancy
that exercises and drills in formal grammar do not produce measurable
improvement in student writing skill, so far as my classroom experience
extends. But I agree with Martha Kolln that it remains to be proven that
grammar should not be taught. I agree with Kolln that it is helpful to teach
students enough grammar or language so that they and you with them can
discuss what it is they have done when they have written well, or
miswritten. Language study is valuable in and of itself. Properly taught, it
can help students employ consciously their unconscious knowledge of language
structure to their writing and thus make more effective use of that
knowledge when they apply pen to page to improve sentence variety and style.
I find that as students do frequent and extensive writing, they discover
their own voice, and grammar and spelling problems tend to correct
themselves, even when I draw little or no attention to them. Learning to get
their point across effectively seems to take care of the rest. As to which
grammar, if any, should be taught, I vote for structural grammar as
explicated by James Sledd, Dr. Donald J. Lloyd, and others, as being the
most student-friendly and applicable to the classroom. I introduce other
grammars from time to time if the interest and need of my students so
warrants. I especially like Martin Joos's little volume on "The Five
Clocks." It can be easily presented as a graphic, and gives students a
memorable insight into levels of usage.
Jerome Smith in Detroit
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:31:22 EST
>
>In a message dated 12/18/0 9:01:23 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >Diagramming doesn't usually teach students about
> >structure, it teaches them that language studies are inaccessible.
>
>
>I disagree. My visually oriented students often have the "Eureka!"
>lightbulb
>go off when they see a sentence diagrammed--or, better still, when they
>write
>one of their own and construct a diagram for it. For kids who feel they
>have
>a hard time with grammar, diagramming can be the very activity that lets
>them
>'see' the sentence.
>
>As constructionists, we applaud pictures, collages, maps, and many more
>activities that help us approach language in a variety of ways. To
>eliminate
>diagramming because of its historical place as a former Torturer of
>Students
>is not necessary; indeed, it can increase accessibility for some.
>
>Candace Lindquist
>Campbell, CA
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:11:46 -0500
From: Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
Jerome,
Here's where the argument always breaks down. No responsible person is
saying that grammar should not be taught. At issue is HOW grammar should be
taught and with what expectation.
The problem with Martha Kolln is that she theorizes all over the place but
she never comes up with anything that can be put into practice. She even
said as much in her Nov 1996 article in EJ. She goes on about the noun
phrase, but she doesn't show what she means by building lessons on the noun
phrase and she admits that no research has been done to prove her theory.
She said she'll leave that to others.
The four people in the field who have done the most to show teachers how to
deal with grammar within the context of writing are Lucy Calkins, Nancie
Atwell, Connie Weaver and Harry Noden. Patrick Hartwell's article Grammar,
Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar" is probably the most lucid
theoretical article out there. I've read the Hunter and Wallace book
several times. In fact much of my explanation of the history of grammar
comes from a couple of articles in that book. But no one in that book
offers much practical help for teachers.
As for Pike. Isn't he the Tagmemic grammar guy? And isn't Tagmemic grammar
used basically to help translate ancient Biblical texts? Tagmemic grammar
is generally considered a theoretical grammar. Grammars used for classroom
purposes should generally be applied grammars.
But all this brings us to another question. What grammars should teachers
know, and when should they learn it? And when is it appropriate for high
school students, for example, to take a grammar course just for the sake of
learning a grammar? I actually approve of that idea. I think some high
school students, once they are fairly fluent in written language, should
take a straight grammar class. I'd prefer to call it linguistics, and I
think the grammar they should learn is functional systemic
grammar--Hallidayian grammar--but I don't really care. They could learn
Tagmemic grammar and then include Tagmemic rhetoric. But I like functional
systemic because it analyses language as it is used, not as it is
prescribed, which is where school grammar falls apart.
See, we're not that far apart, except that the philosophy that grounds your
teaching practice is probably different than mine. Ironically, we probably
would reach a similar conclusion, but for different reasons. Does that make
sense??
I've read Kolln's critique of Braddock et al, and I don't buy it. But
that's how academics pay the bills. It just seems like Braddock et al,
Elley et al, Harris, Hunt and whoever make a lot of sense to me. By the
time you throw in Emig, Hartwell, Smitherman, and the rest, it makes for a
compelling argument. Of course, you have another list that makes for a
compelling argument. But what matters here, for the purposes of the people
on this list, is that we agree that school grammar, Warriner's grammar,
just doesn't cut it.
Nancy
Nancy
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875
"The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
culture."
- --Roland Barthes
[log in to unmask]
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http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:18:24 -0500
From: "Jerome Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] debate lesson
Dear Heidi,
I don't know that anyone on the listserv has responded to your question
about teaching the process of debate to students. Tonight I feel like I am
getting back in the groove of debating myself. Imagine an unknown English
teacher from Detroit arguing against the likes of Terry Debarger and Nancy
Patterson tonight. I am an experienced debater, having been on the city
championship team of my Detroit high school, Cass Technical High School in
Detroit, where I took up electrical and electronics (yes, I'm an electrician
too, and a published technical writer). I was a championship debater at my
undergraduate university, Bob Jones University in Greenville, South
Carolina. I have just a few basic, short, effective lessons to get a class
going on debating. As soon as I get some time, I'll share my lesson plans
with you. You can easily build upon them to suit your own classroom. Back to
Terry Debarger (who argues from a sort of conundrum--a short sentence "See
Spot run"--that diagramming wouldn't be of much use), to Nancy Patterson,
who dismisses Martha Kolln with an ad hominem argument rather than answer
Kolln's argument when I very carefully have given my source more than once,
and tonight even quoted just a little from it... But I'll give Nancy more
time to read the article. By the way, Nancy gave a good off the cuff history
of grammar tonight. But second guessing her, I'll bet she has not read my
favorite article, neither did she cite it in her forthcoming article in
Voices from the Middle (neither, I as an experienced debater I would judge
can she answer Kolln's article satisfactorily), which issue I am eagerly
looking forward to reading with a fine tooth comb, as usual. I very much
appreciate Nancy's comment that topic sentences are an invention not well
represented in reality. I most heartily agree with her on that, and thank
her for that comment. Just like professional writers do not employ
artificial transitions (firstly, secondly, thirdly, in conclusion), neither
do they consciously pay much attention, most of the time, to topic
sentences. By the way, I was the last editor of the original McGuffey's
Readers when I was serving as editor of Mott Media, in Milford, Michigan. I
learned a lot about the history of teaching reading and grammar as editor of
the McGuffey Curriculum until the death of Mr. George Mott, publisher. I
think it is a wonder, that no matter what the current fad in reading
instruction, people still learn to read. Ditto with writing!
Jerome Smith in Detroit
>From: Heidi Schoedl <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [ncte-middle] debate lesson
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 23:16:15 -0800 (PST)
>
>I'd like to have my students debate this year...does
>anyone have good ideas on how to teach them the
>process of debate etc.?
>
>Heidi Schoedl
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
>http://shopping.yahoo.com/
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:50:52 -0500
From: "Stoller" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]
Kylene,
I'll look forward to the March issue. I do get Voices from the Middle, and
I find it very helpful. I enjoy seeing the articles from the people on our
list!
Susie
- ----- Original Message -----
From: KBeers <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]
> Susie,
>
> I saw your request to Nancy asking her for some good articles to share
with
> parents or administrators about the teaching of grammar and I fear that
> Nancy won't tell you that she has herself just written one of those "good"
> articles that will appear in the March 2001 issue of Voices from the
Middle.
> That issue will be devoted to articles on grammar instruction. Look for
> articles by Nancy, Connie Weaver, Harry Noden, Jim Burke and a host of
> others. I'm looking forward to this issue and hope teachers will enjoy
it.
>
> If you don't receive VM, now would be a good time to call NCTE and order
it
> so you'll be sure to receive this issue in March.
>
> Kylene Beers
> editor, Voices from the Middle
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:54:26 -0600
From: "Jukka Rasanen" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
i don't teach diagramming, but i find 'seeing' a sentence diagrammed useful
in 'chunking' the sentence and seeing how various parts relate to each
other. if i were to use diagramming, i wouldn't do it to teach parts of
speech or names of this or that, but to help some students who seem to see a
sentence as an inpenetrable forest of words see that it actually has a
structure that, when understood, gives them flexibility in their writing,
because it would allow them to see how to make changes in the stucture of
the sentence without changing the meaning. i'm sure there are other
learners who would find it helpful, and if i ever use it, it will be on an
individual basis. but i can see a certain type of student finding it very
helpful. it might even be more helpful to 'web' a sentence, in fact for me
it would be. think i'll try it.
mary
[log in to unmask]
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
> In a message dated 12/19/0 2:36:23 PM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> >Candace, sorry, but diagramming with the expectation that it will turn
> >students into better writers is far from a constructivist perspective.
>
> Didn't say it was! But teaching with expection that our choices of
> activities will help the child establish meaning through individual
> experience IS a constructivist perspective, and, . . .
>
> > It might help students learn the parts of speech . . .
>
> . . . as most of my 8th-grade students go on to private high schools where
> they are expected to walk in the door knowing parts of speech and how to
> manipulate them [alas], I would be doing these kids a grave injustice not
to
> assist them in establishing meaning through a task I KNOW they will face
the
> following year. I have found limited experience of diagramming their own
> writing helps SOME STUDENTS (I did not say all) not only to know which
words
> apply to which parts of speech but, most importantly, gives them visual
> cueing to form the relationships. By working out their own material,
> selected from the grammar areas in which they need practice, they can
> experiment with different ways of writing their ideas and quickly discover
> the differences between adjectives and adverbs, indirect objects and
direct
> objects, etc.
>
> Obviously(?!), I am not suggesting that diagramming be used in a vacuum;
but
> it can be a profoundly helpful tool for visual learners, math-oriented
> learners, and ADD/ADHD learners who need a place to hang their grammatical
> hat (n.; subj.; dir. obj. . . . ).
>
> I more or less stand by my story (even if I did just discover I typed
> 'constructionist' in my 1st epistle, instead of 'constructivist! blush!).
>
> Candace Lindquist
> Campbell, cA
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:07:37 EST
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [ncte-middle] Re: Need:Short story or poem:memory triggered by
photo or object
Our school has received a grant to improve family literacy. Students and
parents will write a short story together using a photograph or an object
from the parent's past as inspiration. I have a wonderful poem by Julia
Alvarez titled "New Clothes" that relates the memory of a mother making
clothes for her daughter using her Singer sewing machine.I'm looking for
other stories or poems that could be used as models for this workshop. Any
ideas?
Thanks, Claudia
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:15:19 -0600
From: "Jukka Rasanen" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [Re: [[ncte-middle] English grammar]]
i just went to my trial copy of 'inspiration' and webbed a sentence from
'the things they carried'. very interesting, and while i was doing it my
daughter, hanna (age 7), came up and leaned against my leg. what are you
doing? she read over my shoulder but didn't understand what i was doing.
when i had finished, i read the sentence to her, showing her how it went in
the web. her comment: 'that doesn't make sense'
here's the sentence: Most of the hamlet had burned down, including her
house, which was now smoke, and the girl danced with her eyes half closed,
her feet bare.
mary
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:28:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Crump <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] Re: English grammar
On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Nancy Patterson wrote:
- ->those classes would write scads and scads. So, in order to deal with
the
- ->horrendous paper load, teachers looked at correctness issues rather than
- ->content. It was simply the only way to deal with job.
Well, it was the only way they could think of, or they only way they were
allowed to try. But it's not the *only* way ;-)
- --Eric Crump
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:47:21 -0500
From: "Ria" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ncte-middle] two questions
Two random questions that my collegues have asked me--
1- Can you give me an example of a sentence where "BUT" would be used
as a
preposition and not a conjunction? It was listed in her kids' book as a
prep, but I couldn't think of a solid example.
2- Does the winner of the Caldecott medal get a cash reward?
Thanks for the info. Please email me at [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:02:59 -0500
From: Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [ncte-middle] two questions
How about this. All but one had fallen asleep. "But" is used like the word
"except" which is also a preposition.
Don't know about the Caldecott. Sorry.
Nancy
At 09:47 PM 12/19/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Two random questions that my collegues have asked me--
>
>1- Can you give me an example of a sentence where "BUT" would be used
as a
>preposition and not a conjunction? It was listed in her kids' book as a
>prep, but I couldn't think of a solid example.
>
>
>2- Does the winner of the Caldecott medal get a cash reward?
>
>
>Thanks for the info. Please email me at [log in to unmask]
>
>----------------------------------------------------
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>----------------------------------------------------
>
>
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875
"The text is a tissue of quotations drawn from the innumberable centers of
culture."
- --Roland Barthes
[log in to unmask]
http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:14:29 -0800
From: Caryn Gostlin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [ncte-middle] Newspaper Scavenger Hunt
Hi everyone! I'm in a very sorry state here, and was desperately hoping
someone could help. Last year I bought the book Surviving Last Period on
Fridays
and Other Desperate Situations by Cheryl Miller Thurston (published
by Cottonwood Press). I absolutely LOVE it, and highly recommend it for
great teaching ideas. Unfortunately I can't find it, and I've promised two
of my English classes that we would do a Newspaper Scavenger Hunt Thursday
and Friday, especially since they're so ready for break to come. I did the
hunt a year ago at a different school, and can't remember the stuff the
students had to look for. I've searched the internet for a good one, but
to no avail. Does anyone have a scavenger hunt to please send? If you
have the book and are able, perhaps you would not mind sending the actual
scavenger hunt from Surviving Last Period. I actually have to book, so I
don't want to buy it all over again until I'm sure it has disappeared--and
I wouldn't have time to get it now anyway.
Thank you VERY much!!!!!
Caryn
P.S. If you have the copy of the hunt from Surviving... and don't want to
post it to the entire list for copyright purposes, you can email it to my
regular address: [log in to unmask] This shouldn't be violating
anything--I don't think--because I do already have the book. Thanks again!
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End of ncte-middle-digest V1 #311
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