I have seen many fragments in my decades of teaching composition but this is not one. From the other statements made,however, it hardly sounds as if it were a theme of "B" quality.
Scott Catledge
---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> There are 4 messages totaling 3594 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Advice!
> 2. ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47) (3)
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:01:15 +0000
> From: Ed Vavra <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
> I certainly would not consider it a fragment. KISS Level 3.2.2 includes many examples of such sentences that were written by acknowledged good writers. See: http://kissgrammar.org/kiss/wb/LPlans/WB_L3_2_2_So_For.htm .
> In addition to those on the site, I have a huge collection of other examples that I have not used yet on the KISS site.
> More directly, go to: http://kissgrammar.org/kiss/wb/G07/IM_TN.htm#So_For_Conj
>
>
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2014 9:55 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Advice!
>
> I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
>
> Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
> "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
>
> The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
> Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 19:09:28 +0000
> From: "Castilleja, Janet" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
>
> Boy, you guys are tough! It's not a fragment, and I would be very happy to get a sentence like this from my students. It's hard for me to imagine a grading system that would require failure for "two fatal errors."
>
> Janet
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Catledge
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:51 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
>
> I am a former English teacher and professor and a grammar buff. I do not like the sentence (poorly worded) but I do not find it a fragment. One of my final exam questions for a senior college prep class at a fundamentalist university required each student to diagram "For I know whom I have belived and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day." It's passing but barely.
> Scott Catledge, Professor Emeritus
> ---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > There are 7 messages totaling 810 lines in this issue.
> >
> > Topics of the day:
> >
> > 1. Advice! (7)
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:55:24 -0500
> > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Advice!
> >
> > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> >
> > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last
> sentence a fragment:
> >
> > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the
> best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
> > The
> paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 10:18:19 -0400
> > From: Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > Geoff,
> >
> > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction "For"
> > with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But"
> > and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence
> > starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error.
> >
> > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she
> > constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though.
> >
> > Don Stewart
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
> >
> > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> >
> > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
> >
> > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> >
> > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
> >
> > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > >
> > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
> > >
> > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
> > >
> > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
> > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:29:11 -0700
> > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > Don,
> >
> > I don’t believe there’s anything recent about it:
> >
> > “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…”
> >
> > And all the major style books approve of the practice, in moderation. It doesn’t create a fragment.
> >
> > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Geoff,
> > >
> > > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction "For" with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But" and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error.
> > >
> > > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though.
> > >
> > > Don Stewart
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:38:33 -0500
> > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
> > >
> > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > >
> > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
> > >
> > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> > >
> > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
> > >
> > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > >
> > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
> > > >
> > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
> > > >
> > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
> > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:58:06 -0700
> > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > Sure, Geoff.
> >
> > Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better as subjects than as objects of prepositions.
> >
> > If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed by the original phrasing.
> >
> > For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so, the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course. (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance to the poem itself.
> >
> > Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin).
> >
> > Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by each other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of worth."
> >
> > “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural antecedent. (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that antecedent here is “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.” On the surface level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it at that level, we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men.
> >
> > As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought. Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in vague generalities.
> >
> > Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic. Here’s the structure:
> >
> > Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities of man.
> >
> > - Because -
> >
> > Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his companions in all circumstances.
> >
> > Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It
> > doesn’t show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one
> > positive quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by
> > emphasizing the quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as
> > the measure of the heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks
> > cowardice as the ordinary condition of men, but nothing close to that
> > is ever expressed. It seems more likely that the author is making a
> > series of unconnected statements and slapping a connecting word on to
> > give the semblance of a link. (More inanity.)
> >
> > Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the nature of these qualities?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
> > > >
> > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > > >
> > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
> > > >
> > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> > > >
> > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > > >
> > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
> > > > >
> > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
> > > > >
> > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
> > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
> > > > >
> > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > >
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:32:29 +0000
> > From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > It's hard to make a judgement about the quality of student writing from a single sentence taken out of context. Writing about literature is a very specialized discourse, and students routinely go about it awkwardly in early stages. (Is she writing about a quote or a statement? That's a routine awkwardness.) On the other hand, calling the sentence a "fragment" is a clear mistake. That doesn't give me much faith in the teacher. I would hope that the grade is based on far more substantial judgements about a much larger text than we have in front of us. Clearly, the student and her mother are confused about the grade and want to jump on this sentence as part of a claim that the grade wasn't thoughtful. You can't use a grade as a teaching tool if the judgement is unclear or the student thinks it's arbitrary. I would hope that the teacher could place the student's current writing on a continuum of expected progress. That's what the meeting should be about. How would the student work toward improving? What is she currently doing well? how can the teacher design assignments that would help that process along?
> Craig
> _________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2014 11:58 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
> Sure, Geoff.
>
> Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better as subjects than as objects of prepositions.
>
> If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed by the original phrasing.
>
> For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so, the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course. (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance to the poem itself.
>
> Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin).
>
> Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by each other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of worth."
>
> “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural antecedent. (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that antecedent here is “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.” On the surface level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it at that level, we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men.
>
> As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought. Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in vague generalities.
>
> Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic. Here’s the structure:
>
> Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities of man.
>
> - Because -
>
> Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his companions in all circumstances.
>
> Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It doesn’t show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one positive quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by emphasizing the quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as the measure of the heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks cowardice as the ordinary condition of men, but nothing close to that is ever expressed. It seems more likely that the author is making a series of unconnected statements and slapping a connecting word on to give the semblance of a link. (More inanity.)
>
> Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the nature of these qualities?
>
> Karl
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
> > >
> > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > >
> > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
> > >
> > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> > >
> > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
> > >
> > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > >
> > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
> > > >
> > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
> > > >
> > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
> > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
> > *********************************************************
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 15:58:55 -0400
> From: Nick Carbone <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
>
> Failing for two errors (or some other number) has a name -- Fatal Error
> Policy.
>
> If you go to
> http://ncarbone.blogspot.com/2014/09/slow-editing-and-student-error.html,
> my post leads off with a link and quote from an FEP that fails for three.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Castilleja, Janet <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Boy, you guys are tough! It's not a fragment, and I would be very happy
> > to get a sentence like this from my students. It's hard for me to imagine a
> > grading system that would require failure for "two fatal errors."
> >
> > Janet
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
> > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Catledge
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:51 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
> >
> > I am a former English teacher and professor and a grammar buff. I do not
> > like the sentence (poorly worded) but I do not find it a fragment. One of
> > my final exam questions for a senior college prep class at a fundamentalist
> > university required each student to diagram "For I know whom I have belived
> > and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto
> > Him against that day." It's passing but barely.
> > Scott Catledge, Professor Emeritus
> > ---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > There are 7 messages totaling 810 lines in this issue.
> > >
> > > Topics of the day:
> > >
> > > 1. Advice! (7)
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:55:24 -0500
> > > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Advice!
> > >
> > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily
> > lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please
> > comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented
> > just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > >
> > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last
> > sentence a fragment:
> > >
> > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the
> > best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to
> > all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test
> > of being a man of true worth."
> > > The
> > paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and
> > mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has
> > another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives
> > the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic)
> > this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her
> > daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another
> > argument.Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the
> > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and
> > Momma wants a B.
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 10:18:19 -0400
> > > From: Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > >
> > > Geoff,
> > >
> > > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction
> > "For"
> > > with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But"
> > > and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence
> > > starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error.
> > >
> > > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she
> > > constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though.
> > >
> > > Don Stewart
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > >
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > >
> > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but
> > it’s syntactically complete.
> > >
> > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement
> > structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > >
> > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content
> > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this
> > clause is finite, as it should be.
> > >
> > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance,
> > that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> > >
> > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way
> > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences
> > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that
> > such creates a fragment.
> > >
> > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers
> > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen.
> > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I
> > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > >
> > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last
> > sentence a fragment:
> > > >
> > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he
> > worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by
> > each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true
> > worth."
> > > >
> > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content,
> > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal
> > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric
> > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is
> > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to
> > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is
> > another argument.
> > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay,
> > the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma
> > wants a B.
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:29:11 -0700
> > > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > >
> > > Don,
> > >
> > > I don’t believe there’s anything recent about it:
> > >
> > > “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…”
> > >
> > > And all the major style books approve of the practice, in moderation. It
> > doesn’t create a fragment.
> > >
> > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Geoff,
> > > >
> > > > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction
> > "For" with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But"
> > and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence
> > starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error.
> > > >
> > > > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she
> > constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though.
> > > >
> > > > Don Stewart
> > > >
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > >
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:38:33 -0500
> > > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > >
> > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and
> > stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept,
> > but it’s syntactically complete.
> > > >
> > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking
> > verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > > >
> > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content
> > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this
> > clause is finite, as it should be.
> > > >
> > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance,
> > that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> > > >
> > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way
> > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences
> > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that
> > such creates a fragment.
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers
> > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen.
> > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I
> > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > > >
> > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last
> > sentence a fragment:
> > > > >
> > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he
> > worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by
> > each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true
> > worth."
> > > > >
> > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content,
> > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal
> > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric
> > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is
> > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to
> > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is
> > another argument.
> > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the
> > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and
> > Momma wants a B.
> > > > >
> > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > >
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:58:06 -0700
> > > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > >
> > > Sure, Geoff.
> > >
> > > Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around
> > two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking
> > in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express
> > the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or
> > gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the
> > first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires
> > repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my
> > personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better
> > as subjects than as objects of prepositions.
> > >
> > > If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of
> > these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed
> > by the original phrasing.
> > >
> > > For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a
> > reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have
> > to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by
> > “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The
> > original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has
> > the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so,
> > the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral
> > lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course.
> > (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one
> > of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably
> > vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that
> > misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is
> > intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re
> > discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance
> > to the poem itself.
> > >
> > > Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this
> > quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on
> > cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin).
> > >
> > > Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by
> > each other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of
> > worth."
> > >
> > > “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural
> > antecedent. (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that
> > antecedent here is “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.”
> > On the surface level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it
> > at that level, we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men.
> > >
> > > As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought.
> > Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point
> > here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in
> > extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under
> > discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear
> > that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military
> > context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely
> > “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in
> > vague generalities.
> > >
> > > Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue
> > are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic.
> > Here’s the structure:
> > >
> > > Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities
> > of man.
> > >
> > > - Because -
> > >
> > > Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his
> > companions in all circumstances.
> > >
> > > Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It
> > > doesn’t show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one
> > > positive quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by
> > > emphasizing the quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as
> > > the measure of the heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks
> > > cowardice as the ordinary condition of men, but nothing close to that
> > > is ever expressed. It seems more likely that the author is making a
> > > series of unconnected statements and slapping a connecting word on to
> > > give the semblance of a link. (More inanity.)
> > >
> > > Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates
> > these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the
> > nature of these qualities?
> > >
> > > Karl
> > >
> > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and
> > stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > >
> > > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept,
> > but it’s syntactically complete.
> > > > >
> > > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking
> > verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > > > >
> > > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content
> > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this
> > clause is finite, as it should be.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and
> > substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a
> > fragment.
> > > > >
> > > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way
> > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences
> > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that
> > such creates a fragment.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers
> > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen.
> > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I
> > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the
> > last sentence a fragment:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but
> > he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing
> > by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of
> > true worth."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content,
> > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal
> > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric
> > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is
> > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to
> > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is
> > another argument.
> > > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the
> > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and
> > Momma wants a B.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > > >
> > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > > >
> > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:32:29 +0000
> > > From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > >
> > > It's hard to make a judgement about the quality of student writing from
> > a single sentence taken out of context. Writing about literature is a very
> > specialized discourse, and students routinely go about it awkwardly in
> > early stages. (Is she writing about a quote or a statement? That's a
> > routine awkwardness.) On the other hand, calling the sentence a "fragment"
> > is a clear mistake. That doesn't give me much faith in the teacher. I would
> > hope that the grade is based on far more substantial judgements about a
> > much larger text than we have in front of us. Clearly, the student and her
> > mother are confused about the grade and want to jump on this sentence as
> > part of a claim that the grade wasn't thoughtful. You can't use a grade as
> > a teaching tool if the judgement is unclear or the student thinks it's
> > arbitrary. I would hope that the teacher could place the student's current
> > writing on a continuum of expected progress. That's what the meeting should
> > be about. How would the student work toward improving? What is she
> > currently doing well? how can the teacher design assignments that would
> > help that process along?
> > Craig
> > _________________________________
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <
> > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2014 11:58 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
> >
> > Sure, Geoff.
> >
> > Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around
> > two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking
> > in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express
> > the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or
> > gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the
> > first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires
> > repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my
> > personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better
> > as subjects than as objects of prepositions.
> >
> > If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of
> > these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed
> > by the original phrasing.
> >
> > For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a
> > reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have
> > to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by
> > “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The
> > original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has
> > the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so,
> > the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral
> > lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course.
> > (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one
> > of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably
> > vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that
> > misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is
> > intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re
> > discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance
> > to the poem itself.
> >
> > Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this
> > quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on
> > cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin).
> >
> > Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by each
> > other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of worth."
> >
> > “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural antecedent.
> > (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that antecedent here is
> > “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.” On the surface
> > level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it at that level,
> > we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men.
> >
> > As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought.
> > Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point
> > here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in
> > extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under
> > discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear
> > that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military
> > context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely
> > “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in
> > vague generalities.
> >
> > Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue
> > are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic.
> > Here’s the structure:
> >
> > Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities of
> > man.
> >
> > - Because -
> >
> > Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his companions
> > in all circumstances.
> >
> > Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It doesn’t
> > show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one positive
> > quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by emphasizing the
> > quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as the measure of the
> > heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks cowardice as the ordinary
> > condition of men, but nothing close to that is ever expressed. It seems
> > more likely that the author is making a series of unconnected statements
> > and slapping a connecting word on to give the semblance of a link. (More
> > inanity.)
> >
> > Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates
> > these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the
> > nature of these qualities?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and
> > stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
> > >
> > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
> > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: Advice!
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept,
> > but it’s syntactically complete.
> > > >
> > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking
> > verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
> > > >
> > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content
> > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this
> > clause is finite, as it should be.
> > > >
> > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance,
> > that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
> > > >
> > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way
> > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences
> > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that
> > such creates a fragment.
> > > >
> > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers
> > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen.
> > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I
> > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
> > > > >
> > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last
> > sentence a fragment:
> > > > >
> > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he
> > worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by
> > each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true
> > worth."
> > > > >
> > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content,
> > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal
> > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric
> > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is
> > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to
> > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is
> > another argument.
> > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the
> > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and
> > Momma wants a B.
> > > > >
> > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > >
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > > >
> > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> > "Join or leave the list"
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> > at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > > and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > End of ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
> > > *********************************************************
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> > at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> > at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> nick.carbone at gmail dot com
> http://ncarbone.blogspot.com
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 15:28:07 -0500
> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
>
> Thanks, Nick - that's very helpful (and a little depressing).
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 15:58:55 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Failing for two errors (or some other number) has a name -- Fatal Error Policy.
> If you go to http://ncarbone.blogspot.com/2014/09/slow-editing-and-student-error.html, my post leads off with a link and quote from an FEP that fails for three.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Castilleja, Janet <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Boy, you guys are tough! It's not a fragment, and I would be very happy to get a sentence like this from my students. It's hard for me to imagine a grading system that would require failure for "two fatal errors."
>
>
Janet
>
>
-----Original Message-----
>
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Catledge
>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:51 PM
>
To: [log in to unmask]
>
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47)
>
>
I am a former English teacher and professor and a grammar buff. I do not like the sentence (poorly worded) but I do not find it a fragment. One of my final exam questions for a senior college prep class at a fundamentalist university required each student to diagram "For I know whom I have belived and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day." It's passing but barely.
>
Scott Catledge, Professor Emeritus
>
---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> There are 7 messages totaling 810 lines in this issue.
>
>
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>
>
> 1. Advice! (7)
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:55:24 -0500
>
> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Advice!
>
>
>
> I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
>
>
>
> Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last
>
sentence a fragment:
>
>
>
> "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the
>
best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
>
> The
>
paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 10:18:19 -0400
>
> From: Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
>
>
> Geoff,
>
>
>
> I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction "For"
>
> with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But"
>
> and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence
>
> starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error.
>
>
>
> Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she
>
> constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though.
>
>
>
> Don Stewart
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
>
> From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
>
>
> The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
>
>
>
> The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
>
>
>
> The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
>
>
>
> There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
>
>
>
> A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
>
> >
>
> > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
>
> >
>
> > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
>
> >
>
> > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
>
> > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:29:11 -0700
>
> From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
>
>
> Don,
>
>
>
> I don’t believe there’s anything recent about it:
>
>
>
> “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…”
>
>
>
> And all the major style books approve of the practice, in moderation. It doesn’t create a fragment.
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Geoff,
>
> >
>
> > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction "For" with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But" and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error.
>
> >
>
> > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though.
>
> >
>
> > Don Stewart
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:38:33 -0500
>
> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
>
>
> Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
>
>
>
> > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
>
> > From: [log in to unmask]
>
> > Subject: Re: Advice!
>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
>
> >
>
> > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
>
> >
>
> > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
>
> >
>
> > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
>
> >
>
> > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
>
> >
>
> > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
>
> >
>
> > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
>
> > >
>
> > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
>
> > >
>
> > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
>
> > >
>
> > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
>
> > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
>
> > >
>
> > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> >
>
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> >
>
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:58:06 -0700
>
> From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
>
>
> Sure, Geoff.
>
>
>
> Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better as subjects than as objects of prepositions.
>
>
>
> If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed by the original phrasing.
>
>
>
> For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so, the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course. (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance to the poem itself.
>
>
>
> Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin).
>
>
>
> Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by each other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of worth."
>
>
>
> “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural antecedent. (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that antecedent here is “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.” On the surface level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it at that level, we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men.
>
>
>
> As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought. Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in vague generalities.
>
>
>
> Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic. Here’s the structure:
>
>
>
> Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities of man.
>
>
>
> - Because -
>
>
>
> Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his companions in all circumstances.
>
>
>
> Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It
>
> doesn’t show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one
>
> positive quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by
>
> emphasizing the quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as
>
> the measure of the heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks
>
> cowardice as the ordinary condition of men, but nothing close to that
>
> is ever expressed. It seems more likely that the author is making a
>
> series of unconnected statements and slapping a connecting word on to
>
> give the semblance of a link. (More inanity.)
>
>
>
> Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the nature of these qualities?
>
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more?
>
> >
>
> > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700
>
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
>
> > > Subject: Re: Advice!
>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>
> > >
>
> > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but it’s syntactically complete.
>
> > >
>
> > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …”
>
> > >
>
> > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this clause is finite, as it should be.
>
> > >
>
> > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment.
>
> > >
>
> > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that such creates a fragment.
>
> > >
>
> > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented just yet - I'd like to get your views):
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last sentence a fragment:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true worth."
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another argument.
>
> > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma wants a B.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
>
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> > >
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> > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:32:29 +0000
>
> From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Advice!
>
>
>
> It's hard to make a judgement about the quality of student writing from a single sentence taken out of context. Writing about literature is a very specialized discourse, and students routinely go about it awkwardly in early stages. (Is she writing about a quote or a statement? That's a routine awkwardness.) On the other hand, calling the sentence a "fragment" is a clear mistake. That doesn't give me much faith in the teacher. I would hope that the grade is based on far more substantial judgements about a much larger text than we have in front of us. Clearly, the student and her mother are confused about the grade and want to jump on this sentence as part of a claim that the grade wasn't thoughtful. You can't use a grade as a teaching tool if the judgement is unclear or the student thinks it's arbitrary. I would hope that the teacher could place the student's current writing on a continuum of expected progress. That's what the meeting should be about. How would the student work toward improving? What is she currently doing well? how can the teacher design assignments that would help that process along?
>
Craig
>
_________________________________
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> End of ATEG Digest - 8 Oct 2014 to 10 Oct 2014 (#2014-49)
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