> -Herb has forgotten that I am writing of English English.  No one speaking
Standard English on this side of the Atlantic at the moment would say 'The
police car went slow down the street', but the majority who speak the vernacular
do.  Similarly, though 'real good' may be common spoken American, it is not
common spoken English  ('really good' is the norm) -- except, as I said, among
those who speak the vernacular.  'Fast', of course, never had 'ly' attached (it
is from Old English 'faest').  As regards 'close' one has to distinguish
sentences that provide an adjective complement (what Greenbaum calls a 'subject
predicative') such as 'The glass stayed cool' and 'The cyclist kept close', from
the adverbial position -- 'The cyclist followed us closely'.  Again, in England,
'The cyclist followed us closely' is Standard spoken English, but 'The cyclist
followed us close' is the normal spoken vernacular.  As I said before, you can
readily hear both these versions on television:  most people in the upmarket
'Newsnight' programme on BBC 2 each night at 10.30 would use the first;  most in
the English police soap opera 'The Bill' would use the second.  As regards
speech, we really are a split country still.

The popularity of American soaps, however, is turning the balance, and in
other respects than those of grammar.  For example, where twenty years ago
most people pronounced 'harass' and 'harassment' with emphasis on the first
syllable, exposure to 'Kojak', 'NYPD Blue' and 'Miami CSI' etc. has almost
completely shifted it to the second syllable.  Although in the somewhat
highbrow quiz show 'Countdown' on Channel 4 TV nearly everyone refers to the
letter H as 'aitch', elsewhere, commonly in secondary schools, children are
now learn its name as 'haitch' (though that may be Australian influence --
from listening to an extremely popular soap called 'Neighbours').  Once we
had (1) 'nauseous' for what you found disgusting, and (2) 'nauseated' for
the feeling you got from something disgusting, but now the American use of
'nauseous' for the second is becoming very common -- which, in this case, is
a pity, since a valuable distinction is being lost.

Edmond 


Dr. Edmond Wright
3 Boathouse Court
Trafalgar Road
Cambridge
CB4 1DU
England

Email: [log in to unmask]
Website: http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~elw33
Phone [00 44] (0)1223 350256







ly has never been the universal mark of adverbs in English grammar.
> Some of the examples that Edmond Wright provides have never of not for a
> long time taken required -ly to be used as adverbs, including "quick",
> "close", "slow", "fast", etc.  The use of "real" as an intensifier has
> been around for a long time in informal speech but isn't common in
> formal speech and writing.
> 
>  
> 
> In response to Peter Adams' concern, it is the case that as the language
> changes it tends to change in informal registers before the change
> creeps into more formal usage.  Teaching register as a part of teaching
> grammar is a good way to acquaint students with notions of
> appropriateness and of change in progress.
> 
>  
> 
> Herb
> 
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Adams
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:24 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Adverb of Manner
> 
>  
> 
> Elizabeth's question about -ly endings on adverbs of manner raises an
> even broader question: how are we as teachers to decide when some "rule"
> of grammar is no longer in effect.  Most of us don't want to be in the
> role of defending archaic rules that no longer describe the living,
> evolving language, but we also do want to make sure our students learn
> the conventions that will stigmatize their writing when violated.
> 
> Two examples I've wondered about lately:  "try and" has appeared twice
> in recent weeks in the New York Times.  Should I abandone my efforts to
> convince my students that "try to" is preferable?  And the apostrophe
> seems to be disappearing in some constructions: Veterans Administration,
> for example.  
> 
> Many on this list have poked fun at those who cling to archaic rules
> about splitting infinitives and ending sentences with prepositions, are
> "try and" and the optional apostrophe approaching the same status?  How
> will we know when they arrive there?
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Adams
> 
> 
> 
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