I concur, Rebecca. I used Max's book last semester when I taught the
first grammar class at my technically oriented school in decades. I had
a small class of computer-science majors and technically oriented
students who told me that this class was the first positive experience
they had of "English." The book avoids some of the niceties of
distinctions and draws the major concepts with a coarse brush, precisely
the kind of thing needed for novices in grammar.
==Best, Reinhold
"Rebecca S. Wheeler" wrote:
>
> Katy, let me answer your question and then add a few caveats:
>
> Morenberg, Max (1997) Doing Grammar, 2nd edition. Oxford University
> Press.
> (I hear Morenberg is doing a 3rd edition)
>
> Morenberg, Max and Jeff Sommers (et al). (1999) The Writer's Options,
> Longman Press.
>
> Caveats: While Writer's Options may indeed work with high school
> students (I've not yet used it, tho I have scanned it.), I would not
> think that Doing Grammar would serve the high school populace. Indeed,
> my 400 level college students find it QUITE challenging.
>
> So.... perhaps Max will say something about what audiences he sees his
> books speaking to.
>
> cheers,
> rebecca
>
> Katy Perry wrote:
>
> > Rebecca,
> > Who are the publishers of the texts you mentioned? I'll be teaching
> > a
> > course called "Grammar" for the first time next year. I'm looking
> > around
> > for some useful and interesting things for my high school students.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Katy Perry
> >
> > > Geoff,
> > >Useful treatment you seem to do. I'm wondering what text you use to
> > back
> > >up your approach.
> > >
> > >As for me, having tried Klammer and Schultz, Analyzing English
> > Grammar for
> > >a year, and finding their treatments both too detailed for my
> > students and
> > >their statement of sentence types imperspicuous, I'm returning to
> > my
> > >favorite, Morenberg's Doing Grammar, accompanied by his The
> > Writer's
> > >Options: Lessons in Style and Arrangement, in order to anchor the
> > work
> > >closer to the writing process. I like Morenberg's treatment of
> > sentence
> > >types and his exposition on relatives, noun clauses, infinitives
> > etc.
> > >
> > >Further, I have discovered that my department tells students to
> > take
> > >Advanced Grammar IN ORDER to improve their writing... gad.... so...
> > I'm
> > >hoping that the Writer's Options book will help me anchor more in
> > the uses
> > >of grammar in writing.
> > >
> > >ciao,
> > >
> > >rebecca wheeler
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Geoff Layton wrote:
> > >
> > >At 01:44 PM 2/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
> > >>It seems to me that the neglect of the discipline of grammar tends
> > to
> > >reduce speech and writing to > a collage of direct quotations, as
> > in "He
> > >was all like 'Think 'different,'"'
> > >>instead of, "He suggested that I think in an unconventional
> > manner.'
> > >>Grammar is the study of the rules by which we generate new
> > statements of
> > >>our own.
> > >
> > >Let me respond as a former believer in the purity and sanctity of
> > grammar,
> > >but one who has since undergone the baptism of fire in the
> > secondary school
> > >classroom.
> > >
> > >I think the point that the most members of the list would make is
> > that
> > >knowledge of the rules of grammar have no bearing on the ability of
> >
> > >students to create meaning from language - either through writing
> > or
> > >through reading. For example, knowledge of the definition of an
> > appositive
> > >does in no way guarantee that a student can use the form
> > correctly. (I
> > >didn't even know what it meant until I came across it in a grammar
> > book
> > >after I started to teach grammar, and I've been speaking the King's
> > English
> > >for over 50 years!)
> > >
> > >Therefore, the struggle is to find the means (a) to teach students
> > how to
> > >grow in their ability to create meaning and (b) to convince the
> > "powers
> > >that be" that this should be the goal rather than knowledge of the
> > specific
> > >rules of grammar.
> > >
> > >In my classroom, I have begun to teach a structure of usage that
> > seems to
> > >work. Instead of making students identify grammar constructs, I
> > show them
> > >how to use the tools of grammar to create meaning. For example,
> > they can
> > >use an infintive phrase to express "where" or "when" - and then,
> > create a
> > >different kind of meaning in a different way using a dependent
> > clause. At
> > >no time does the student need to learn the definitions. Just so
> > long as
> > >they know how to use them!
> > >
> > >Therefore, most people who have come to the same conclusion that I
> > have are
> > >not neglectful of grammar discipline - just concerned that students
> > study
> > >what they need to know to learn something really useful in life.
> > >
> > >Does this help?
> > >
> > >Geoff Layton
> > >
> > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface
> > >at:
> > >
> > >
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html>http://listserv.muohio.edu/archiv
> >
> > >es/ateg.html
> > >and select "Join or leave the list"
> > >
> > >Visit ATEG's web site at <http://ateg.org/>http://ateg.org/
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >*******************************************
> > >Rebecca S. Wheeler, Ph.D.
> > >Assistant Professor
> > >Department of English
> > >Christopher Newport University
> > >1 University Place
> > >Newport News, VA 23606-2998
> > >
> > >Editor, Syntax in the Schools
> > >The Journal of the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> > (ATEG), an
> > >assembly of the NCTE
> > ><http://www.ateg.org/>http://www.ateg.org/
> > >
> > >phone: (757) 594-8891; fax: (757) 594-8870
> > >email: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >*******************************************
> > >
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> > interface at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> --
> *******************************************
> Rebecca S. Wheeler, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> Christopher Newport University
> 1 University Place
> Newport News, VA 23606-2998
>
> Editor, Syntax in the Schools
> The Journal of the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> (ATEG), an
> assembly of the NCTE
> http://www.ateg.org/
>
> phone: (757) 594-8891; fax: (757) 594-8870
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
> *******************************************
>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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